| Author | Message | ||
     Benjamin (Benjamin) Intermediate Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2013 |
Basically, twist with the flow of the water and keep the twists out of each others way.  | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2006 |
 Andrew, Ben might be able to follow up with a shot of the pattern, but it's pretty simple the angle is WAY exaggerated, to show the concept. It gets a tiny dog-ear / pinch where the angle changes. You can also do a sweep I suppose but I've always done it this way. | ||
| Andrew (Andrew) New member Username: Andrew Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2013 |
Benjamin, could you offer some suggestions/photos on how to join two pieces of valley flashing where they merge at the top? I've read they can just be folded over each other but I've not been able to do this. I was able to cut, fold and solder it but if that's something that can be avoided, then I want to know how to do it. Plus it's obvious that you really know what you're doing when it comes to sheet metal work so any advice you could offer would be awesome. | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 769 Registered: 01-2007 |
Benjamin thanks. After I posted the question I figured that was the answer, more seams. Thanks again. Also if you have a picture of a valley can you post it? | ||
| Lazeyjack (Lazeyjack) Senior Member Username: Lazeyjack Post Number: 77 Registered: 04-2012 |
there is a hell of a lot of guessing going on here METAL FATIGUE does not occur in buildings, metal fatigue is where there is considerable movement, like working back and forwards as in trying to break a piece of hi ten wire Over many cycles, thousands of cycles As in a failed spar in an aero wing Please think before you post, well crap best rgds Stuart | ||
| Lazeyjack (Lazeyjack) Senior Member Username: Lazeyjack Post Number: 76 Registered: 04-2012 |
Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 955 Registered: 01-2009 Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2013 - 08:56 am: Metal moves! What do you expect? please post what you understand, which is not metal, A properly designed weldment or(solder) will not fail, ever, as a shipbuilder I know this Sure metal expands, contracts, we know this and it is easily allowed for best rgds Stuart | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Intermediate Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2013 |
Also consider, metal fatigue is more of an issue when you have three layers of metal. I use a grooving hammer in the center of the valley to create a tight radius instead of a crease in the areas where there are multiple layers. I do the same when standing up the seam. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Intermediate Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2013 |
The more metal you have in the twist point the harder it is to get a pretty seam. I would advise twisting more often, the tighter the radius. If you feel so inclined you can calculate the differences in length of your arcs and determine the amount of material to add. | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 768 Registered: 01-2007 |
Benjamin on your jig. Will the amount of metal that you bend over change depending on the radius. It looks like you have about 2" of material is that correct? If you did a barrel dormer would you make that more like 3"? Thanks. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 955 Registered: 01-2009 |
Metal moves! What do you expect? | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 255 Registered: 10-2006 |
This is what happens to the soldered hips in a few years...  This one is in litigation now. installed by one of the largest "sheet metal" roofing companies in the region. (Message edited by kwhord on February 23, 2013) | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2013 |
Kansas state house, Topeka.  | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 954 Registered: 01-2009 |
Where is that at? Nice scaffold job. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2013 |
Full replacement of roof, facade, and ornamentation. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 951 Registered: 01-2009 |
Now by God, that is a project to be proud of! What do you have to do to it? | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2013 |
My current project.   | ||
| Lazeyjack (Lazeyjack) Senior Member Username: Lazeyjack Post Number: 75 Registered: 04-2012 |
some nice stuff guys Missed y,all happy to report even with 24 inches rain on my roof, and some driving horizontal, no leaks, Now I am designing round 40 foot diametre, and hope to find a place to build in France best rgds Stuart | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2006 |
oh it is a z fold... okay that makes more sense. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2013 |
Kwhord, I don't quite know which corner you are referring to the dog ear corner. Are you asking about the resolution of the z fold into the back corner of the pan? | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2013 |
For a double transverse seam fold your panel intersection like this. This will allow you to leave the seam legs standing. Pull up the roof to click together, push down the roof to lock, flatten seam with a beater board to lock tight. No more hand formed seams means cleaner and easier work.  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2013 |
The jig is quite simple. It is 2 round rods with one being a pivot point with a crank. Slide the metal between the rods and turn the crank. | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 252 Registered: 10-2006 |
been using origami foil paper to teach some of these seams to our new roofers... will post the chimney and dormer mock-up tomorrow    | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2006 |
Slate man, I thought you were asking about a jig to form the radius itself. I stand corrected though, that's clearly some type of jig there  | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 767 Registered: 01-2007 |
I know the style and do here there myself mostly with copper and some in paint steel very hard. I have most of the tools and use them all the time. As for the jig its right there on the table for making the bends on the solder less flashing.  | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 248 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ben, in this shot... how in the world does that seam on the back resolve into that dog-eared corner? trying to work that one out looks amazing as usual!  | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2006 |
He's doing german / euro style like Erno. I doubt there's a jig, slate man. Just really good pattern work and some tongs to form the break on site i'm guessing. It's hard to do right, Ben is one of the best in the country.. probably the world! | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 766 Registered: 01-2007 |
Benjamin can you give us some more pictures or a video link on your jig that makes your folds for your solder less flashing detail. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 23 Registered: 01-2013 |
If it has slope there is almost always a way to avoid solder. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2013 |
no solder radius     | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2013 |
seamed in roof gutter  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2013 |
seams and twists no solder no sealant. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2013 |
six  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2013 |
five  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2013 |
four  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2013 |
three  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2013 |
two  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2013 |
here is one  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2013 |
here is one  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2013 |
The curve seam has many uses. This particular detail is almost as old as the standing seam itself. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) Junior Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2013 |
here it is  | ||
| Catfeesh (Catfeesh) Intermediate Member Username: Catfeesh Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2011 |
Awesome stuff. Before I found Joe's book, I was designing a stainless batten seam metal roof, but gave up on the details. Proper technique is not easily found by the public, and it often recommends rubber boots, sealants, foams etc. Erno Ovari's work is really interesting, he sent me this solderless, sealantless chimney penetration awhile back... try to find this in a book (please?). Another resource, (Modern Sheet Copper Practices): http://ia700605.us.archive.org/7/items/modernsheetcoppe00amer/modernsheetcoppe00amer.pdf  | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 246 Registered: 10-2006 |
This is pretty good too! http://www.metalcom.co.il/userfiles/files/Falzschablonen_englisch(1).pdf | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2006 |
Lookin' good Ben! | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2013 |
If you can find a copy a much better book is the tecu installation guide book. This book was put out by KME. I believe it is no longer in print but I am sure they would sell you a pdf download. Although I cannot vouch for the content or quality of said pdf as I have not seen it. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2013 |
It is basically a watered down version of a german text book. It shows good details but does not give any info about their proper integration. It is available from M.A.S.C.  | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 763 Registered: 07-2006 |
Benjamin - what is that book? | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2013 |
hmm.  | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) Junior Member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2011 |
Ben, I don't believe he had a choice. In the details you listed, the panels are staggered at either side of the hip. In his scenario, they line up at the hip. I'm no metal expert, but i believe this was the only option outside of a cap. | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2013 |
here it is put together  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2013 |
if they need to stand at the hip  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2013 |
standard hip/ridge detail  | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2013 |
lay the seam over and seam together | ||
| Benjamin (Benjamin) New member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2013 |
truly unfortunate | ||
| Blue_sky_roofing (Blue_sky_roofing) Senior Member Username: Blue_sky_roofing Post Number: 59 Registered: 05-2010 |
SWEEET! Hope the Homeowners have a couple of Rotweilers to patrol during the night! | ||
| Tinner666 (Tinner666) Senior Member Username: Tinner666 Post Number: 84 Registered: 02-2009 |
I've never seen hips soldered before. Interesting concept. Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 936 Registered: 01-2009 |
Well done! | ||
| Chris (Chris) Senior Member Username: Chris Post Number: 176 Registered: 09-2009 |
some shots I have been meaning to post...        |
