| Author | Message | ||
     Shrllc (Shrllc) Intermediate Member Username: Shrllc Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2008 |
In Maine a Brownville slate is shot by +/- 90-100 years, however we do continue to service these roofs if the iron cut heads of the nails are not entirely rotted off from galvanic corrosion, where as a Monson slate as we are all aware) has lasted the test of time on every roof I have serviced or reclaimed excluding the fractures from unprofessional repairs and at times naturally, the oldest dating back to 1871.If you google the two locations they are not very far from one another as the crow flies but the Brownville is a MUCH softer vaine. I am not a fan of synthetic, if approached I would be happy to contract for the copper-smithing but would never take a project on that involved installing a synthetic "slate" in my opinion, that word "synthetic" by its very nature should never be associated with the word slate, is in no way shape or means a slate. | ||
| Afish (Afish) New member Username: Afish Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2019 |
Anyone have experience with Brava? | ||
| John_chan (John_chan) Senior Member Username: John_chan Post Number: 171 Registered: 08-2006 |
Many of the synthetics look very nice when they're new, but I haven't seen one that has lasted more than 10-12 years without utterly falling apart (except the old asbestos). Most of them only last 5 years. Every year or two they come out the the latest and greatest with a 50 year warranty, and every year we tear them off when they fail: Eternit, Supradur, Britslate, Maxislate, Fire free. The list goes on and on. Don't be fooled by the pretty pictures and the worthless warranties!! If slate is too expensive, go with a good shingle. | ||
| Stevenmurphy (Stevenmurphy) New member Username: Stevenmurphy Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2016 |
Each synthetic roofing manufacturer has different performance specifications. Here is the comparison for Brava Roof Tile Synthetic Slate vs Natural Slate: Old World Slate: http://www.bravarooftile.com/wp-content/themes/brava/images/Old_World_Slate_fron t.pdf Select Slate: http://www.bravarooftile.com/wp-content/themes/brava/images/Slate_Info_Flier.pdf World's Best Synthetic Slate: http://www.bravarooftile.com/ | ||
| Dawn (Dawn) New member Username: Dawn Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2015 |
Used Davinci Variblend slate in Castle Gray. I love my new roof, truly looks amazing other than where they cut pieces. Roofer has contacted the manufacturer. Any suggestions on how cut edges wear or how to correct them? | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 876 Registered: 01-2009 |
Metal would work, at least it has a history. Most of the fake slates have a "guarantee" but no real history. When they fail, and they always do, those that installed them are left holding the bag, or least a worthless guarantee. Seen it happen too many times. Too many of the roofers that install the fake slates use the same technique as they use to install shingles and real slate for that matter. gun them down and they over drive the nails. On a shingle that will cut through, but at least most of them are self sealing, so they fall off all stuck together. On the fake slates, when you over drive them, they curl up and that along with the fact that they fade like crazy make them look like crap in a few years. Do yourself a favor and ask the people that are selling the fake stuff how long they have been making it. I will bet you it is less than 10 years. How can they guarantee something for life or 50 years if they haven't been making it that long? Just a question! | ||
| Brycenesbitt (Brycenesbitt) New member Username: Brycenesbitt Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2012 |
How about ArrowLine Metal Slate Roofing? There is no history of hail in this area. Its asphalt shingles for this building without a different option. Surely that's worse than fake slate? ;-) | ||
| Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration (Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration) Senior Member Username: Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration Post Number: 169 Registered: 04-2007 |
The answer is none. There is no fake slate that looks real. I don't know about quake-resistant. Like John said, why bother? | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 874 Registered: 01-2009 |
They might just as sell use the Certain Teed Grand Manors if they are not going to use the real thing. The "roofers" of today know how to apply them and they have been around longer than most of the artificial slates have been. At least they don't look plastic. | ||
| Brycenesbitt (Brycenesbitt) New member Username: Brycenesbitt Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2012 |
The Hillside school is a wood frame building with stucco exterior. Plus the fault is less of a big deal because the entire site sits on a massive landslide (no I'm not kidding on either point). The slate question is real: what fake slate would be quake resistant and not look like a bad hairdo? | ||
| Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration (Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration) Senior Member Username: Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration Post Number: 168 Registered: 04-2007 |
Being listed on the NRHP is largely honorary and without protection unless the project gets caught in the crosshairs of a Section 106 review (which is a possibility if any funding comes from the US Department of Education.) The structure is protected, locally, by its landmark status in Berkeley. Any changes to the envelope, visible from LeRoy Ave., will need the preservation commission's approval. A salesman at Allied once told me that synthetic slate was better than the real thing because of the minimized risk of injury. "What do you think happens if one of those things falls forty feet and hits you on the head," I asked him. "Do you get an artificial injury?" Hillside Elementary is a circa 1925 masonry structure built on the Hayward Fault line. If the ground starts rocking everyone will remember why the school district stopped using the building in 1983 (hence the deferred maintenance.) The slate will fall no further than the pile of rubble they'll be on top of. Let's hope the children of the German International School aren't there that day. | ||
| Brycenesbitt (Brycenesbitt) New member Username: Brycenesbitt Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2012 |
I've got a situation were we need fake slate. Probably. The existing slate is 40 feet up, and below is a school yard (specifically a preschool). The building sits directly atop the Hayward earthquake fault (severe quakes on average every 100 years, the last one was in 1868). Pieces of slate are slaking off the roof and hitting the ground. The building is a national registered landmark. What can we use that looks like slate, but won't fall off in a quake? | ||
| Branden_wilson (Branden_wilson) Senior Member Username: Branden_wilson Post Number: 111 Registered: 03-2008 |
ditto old school, which is exactly why we should NEVER represent these products until they have at least lasted as long as their claims. i take it even a step further to say we should refuse to install them as well. i'm still waiting for a check in from that flexim stuff. i know we're all still waiting to see if that stuff works, right? REAL SLATER | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 708 Registered: 01-2007 |
Old School it was Slatetec and they are from Colorado. http://www.slatetec.net/ | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 793 Registered: 01-2009 |
So far, that same thing has happened to about all of the fake slate and shake products. They come on the market, they make a lot of promises, they give long term guarantees on a product that they have made for 1 or 2 years and then when they fail (the products) they bail and they blame other things. I am so tired of these companies doing their R & D on the backs of the installers. Seen it before and I am sure we will see it again. Hey, speaking of which, I got something on #Email the other day of some guy in California that was selling "real slate" that was cut down so there was no head lap when installed, but he was selling some heavy underlayment to lace between the rows. Kind of like installing wood shakes. How long before that fails? I give it about 6 months. | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 675 Registered: 07-2006 |
Roofing Materials Maker Re-Con Building Products Ceases Operations, Undergoes Liquidation 11/08/2007 On October 16, 2007, Stone Mountain Holdings Inc. announced that its operating subsidiary, Re-Con Building Products Inc. had ceased operations and is in the process of liquidating its assets, which primarily consist of accounts receivable, inventory and equipment. Re-Con Building Products manufactured FireFree Plus fiber cement roofing shakes. The company stated that a receiver has been appointed over its assets and undertakings. Re-Con is indebted to its principal banker HSBC Bank Canada in the approximate amount of $1.4 million on its operating line. It is Re-Con's intention to pay down the operating line with the proceeds from the liquidation of its assets in an orderly fashion. Louis Clarke, President and Chief Executive Officer of Stone Mountain Holdings Inc. and Re-Con, stated: "It is very unfortunate that we have had to shut down Re-Con's operations, however our business has been negatively impacted by the recent strength of the Canadian dollar, which has greatly impaired our profit margins. We do not expect the situation to change in the short term, and in order to avoid further losses made the difficult decision to cease operations. We expect to be able to satisfy the obligations owed to our principal banker through the orderly liquidation of our assets. While Stone Mountain Holdings Inc. is a guarantor of Re-Con's debt to HSBC, we do not expect it will be called on the guarantee. Once Re-Con is wound up, Stone Mountain will reorganize its affairs and search for new opportunities. We expect that Stone Mountain's listing will be moved from Tier 2 of the TSX Venture Exchange to the NEX board, while it undergoes its reorganization." The company's website is: www.firefreeplus.com/ | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 674 Registered: 07-2006 |
I am looking at a roof with Firefree fake slate, installed in 1995-97 and needing replaced now, despite the 50 year warranty. I ran a google search and found this: Class Action Suits Pending Over Fire-Free Roofing Advisory Report - February 2001 Class Action Suits Pending Over Fire-Free Roofing At least two class action lawsuits in California are pending against Re-Con, the manufacturer of FireFree® roofing products. Complaints allege that the FireFree® roofing products warp, cup, break, deteriorate and delaminate, often well in advance of the claimed 50-year warranty period. FireFree® Plus PMFC (Polymer Modified Fiber Cement) roofing, which is rated a Class A fire-rated material, is made from a blend of cement, cellulose fiber and aggregate materials. The individual roof tiles are coated with a polymer resin that penetrates below the surface layer and encapsulates all six sides of the material. The roofing shakes in question were manufactured between 1993 and 1997, and are now off the market. The two product lines of FireFree® Plus roofing -- Rustic Shake and Quarry Slate -- were produced in a limited variety of colors. The Rustic Shake line was molded to resemble rough-sawn or split cedar shake, and the Quarry Slate line was molded to resemble traditional slate roofing. As with all cement-based products, FireFree® roofing products are subject to breakage due to the fact that the products cure longer than others. This results in a slightly stiffer product that is more capable of withstanding breakage usually associated with shipping, delivery and roof loading. However, the materials are more brittle, which presents breakage concerns during installation. Because the tiles are tapered from the bottom edge to the top, they are more brittle at the top. Breakage may occur if walked on, even by experienced roofing specialists or contractors. Under common roofing conditions, this is not a problem as the top of the tile is covered by the next applied row. However, a problem can exist when the tiles are installed in a valley, which can leave the top edges and untreated cut edges exposed to the elements. In order to positively identify problems, the tiles must be removed, and replacement or repair is rather difficult. The tile must be either broken from the roof or the fasteners must be cut with a long, bladed, metal-cutting saw. http://www.usinspect.com/resources-for-you/advisory-report-archives/2001-archive s/class-action-suits-pending-over-fire-free-r | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 719 Registered: 01-2009 |
I would order the ridge caps for that one. I have used them before and they are set up for the fake slates. 3/ 12 is pretty flat too and that could be a problem trying it the other way. | ||
| Richmonder (Richmonder) New member Username: Richmonder Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2011 |
We are installing EcoStar Majestic Slate 18x12 on a 3:!2 porch roof with 13 ft hips. Is the hip and ridge cap critical or can we overlap the alternating edge of each tile on the hip? The main roof has authentic slate and the hips are done this way. The porch roof is not particularly visible from the yard the way the house sits on a hill. I took delivery of 26 bundles but the distributor does not stock the hip and ridge cap. I can order 6 bundles if is worth the hassle and delay. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 718 Registered: 01-2009 |
I try and tell the companies that make the fake slate that they are shooting themselves in the foot by allowing gun nails to used to install it. Matter of fact, a lot of the shingle companies are shooting themselves in the foot by letting gun nailers be used on the shingle roofs. 90% of them are over nailed or the nails are improperly placed. When you do that on a fake slate roof, the results are even worse, sadly, the problems don't normally show up until at least the job has been paid for. Sad! | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 680 Registered: 01-2007 |
Recommendation maybe a doulde side foam tape for exterior use. From my understanding of these products they are recommended not to use copper flashing with them, you need to flex/cup every pcs backwards before you install them, I was told that three side should be caulked down as they are installed (never heard of the tape). (Which is another way to correct the problem is use the tape and caulk, the tape will fail but will give the caulking time to dry.) They say that you can use a air gun, but the recommendation is to hand nail them. Oh ya and the matails are about the same as some slate. Why do people put them on the labor is bacisly the same, when you add it all up along with all cost!! | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 714 Registered: 01-2009 |
Is the "DuraSlate" like the Eco Star? I warn people about that all the time, but it looks liek they have to have a failure to understand; and then it is too late. How about a face nail? that would hold them down! | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 633 Registered: 07-2006 |
More on fake slate (I saw this on a blog, September 30, 2011 - http://www.contractortalk.com/f15/how-flatten-out-curling-dura-slate-shingles-10 5021/): How To Flatten Out Curling Dura-Slate Shingles? Please recommend a double-sided tape or sealant that will hold down the edges of curling Dura-Slate Shingles. I installed a Dura-Slate roof back in 2005 and the shingles began to "curl" in 2006 approximately one year after installation. I contacted Royal Building Products, the manufacturer, for help and they said that they no longer made Dura-Slate and that the 50-year warranty would expire in 2010 because of the high number of claims for labor and materials due to curling shingles. I elected not to make a warranty claim, as several local roofers had attempted to do so and were turned down for alleged incorrect installations. According to them, Royal Building Products looked for any reason to deny the claim-especially "faulty" installations. In late 2006/early 2007, I contacted another roofer (the company who did the installation had since gone bankrupt) to correct the curling and they used the double-backed adhesive tape from Eco-Star. They returned two additional times in 2009 and 2010 to tape down even more curling shingles. Recently, I asked the same roofer to go back again a fourth time to tape down even more shingles. Before starting though, the mechanic, who had done the previous "tapings" as well, inspected the previously taped down shingles and noticed that the Eco-Star tape was beginning to fail causing the shingles to re-curl. I don't know why the tape failed, but my guess is that it is not designed to adhere to the chemicals used to make Dura-Slate. The roofer who did the tapings is excellent, so I am confident he followed the Eco-Star tape install instructions: 1) clean the shingle first by wiping it down with a clean towel; 2) if more cleaning is required, use soap and water; 3) if that does not work, clean with a solvent (that will not harm the shingle). I need to correct this problem so that it does not continue to absorb my resources. At the same time, I do not want to replace the roof, so I am willing to try other remediation options. Does anyone have any suggestions? Please recommend another double-sided tape or sealant that can remediate the curling problem. | ||
| Bee (Bee) New member Username: Bee Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2010 |
I have a roof of PA slate that has mostly seen better days. I'd like to find an experienced slate installer to price out putting a new roof of Vermont slate including the underlayment. I live in suburban Philadelphia about 40 minutes West of the City. Newtown Square area. Is there anyone local out there that can contact me? | ||
| Anonymous |
I am a roofing contractor who recently lost a large residential job to synthetic slate. We priced natural slate as specified on the project. Some asphalt guy decided to showcase his expertise and bring a synthetic slate to the table. Obviously his price was better and the homeowner was shocked. I have told him the drawbacks to what I would consider "junk" but the bottom line is it is less expensive. If there is anyone who can give me some of their experiences, please let me know as the homeowner would like some feedback from other contractors besides myself. Thanks is advance. | ||
| Dave Snyder |
It depends on the Synthetic Slate.. There is really only one decent synthetic Slate and it is: DaVinci RoofScapes Collection... But it still has it's downsides too. The other products have failures ( Duraslate and its matching competitors look great in your hands and not bad on the roof .. But I found that it was opaque in certain times of the day... you know like you could see through it.. Secondly if they get bent they do not like to lay flat again at all. And again they Crack very easily if hit in the cold. Lastly they are too flexible for windy areas. ) Dave Snyder 814 323 6374 or roofteacher@hotmail.com | ||
| timmyd |
i have installed a synthetic slate product about 5 years ago as per specs and request from owner,architect and contractor on a home that was being renovated,i thought it was a good product,at the time,virtually unbreakable,easily installed, seemed like they would last a long time,and to the untrained eye it was impossible to tell the difference.My two reservations at the time were (a)The cost of the product was not that much cheaper than natural slate,because it is faster and easier to install, the saving is on the really on the labor.However with installation of any roof system,the flashings are the most important (yet overlooked) aspect,the overall quality of actual roof installation has therefore detioriorated,because most installers did not have proper training in waterproofing methods with these slate and tile roofing systems,and(b)I was concerned with their wind-resistance capabilities.This concern seems to be popular on other roofing forums i have visited,these synthetic slates appear to me to be doomed to the same type of failure as other types that have appeared and then quickly disappeared over the years,leaving us repair mechanics with the headache of trying to explain and patch together the mess in their wake.This week i have being passing a college we worked on a few years ago "tying in" an existing 80 yr old slate roof to a new addition,where the new roof began another company installed synthetic slate, many of the slates are uplifting drastically, i will endeavour to take some photographs and try to post them here but i have seen similar images on other forums, the manufacturer will blame this it on improper installation,which is the easy way out i guess,sorry for the long post,but if i were spending the money i would go with the material with a proven,reliable,and reputable track record.A properly installed natural slate roof has no competitiors in this department!To install this product just because it is cheaper makes absolutely no sense to me. | ||
| Dave Snyder |
Applause!!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Second that APPLAUSE!!!!! I've said this for years yet people still wind up buying the JUNK (synthetic slate). We've replaced alot of it and timmyd is 100% correct when he states that the manufacturer blames the install for the synthetic slates poor and decaying performance. If you want a slate roof then buy one, if you like the looks of a slate roof but, don't think you can afford buy recycled slates (they are cheaper than new)and alot of companies listed on this site sells recycled slates--ALOT. And as timmyd states (and he's correct) the cost of the material is not that much greater, it's the labor cost. So if you go with a recycled slate you may be at the same cost as a new synthetic slate roof with the real thing keeping the weather off your head. It's just a matter of time, the synthetic slate WILL FAIL. | ||
| Anonymous |
i would have to disagree. We have had positive experiences with the Ecostar product from Carlisle. The install is the most important. If instructions are followed than there should be no issues. | ||
| Anonymous |
You might have had a positive experience with it, let us know how it is in 5-10yrs. from now. You cannot find a product that has had the YEARS of testing slate has had in the ENTIRE roofing industry. They've been put to the test for centuries--CENTURIES. | ||
| Anonymous |
OK how is the instal the most Important part. Is it not after the install and how long it last the most important part to the homeowner. the previous poster is correct when there has not been years of test like slate. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yea, then these fake slate guys/gals want us (the slate roofing loving community) to believe it will last 50, 100, 200 years WHERE'S THE TESTING to back it up, oh yea in some lab environment by a lab roof rat. The stuff has only been around for 5-10 years but, it's got a 50 year guarantee, right! Talk to us in a couple hundred years about your roof until then talk your stuff on a site that will listen and maybe buy your stuff, I doubt it will happen here. We don't have to guess slates durability, it's been tested, in the outdoor environment. If your customers want slate give it to them, not this imitatiuon stuff. | ||
| Michael Lichy |
I have a client how has a 8 year old Eternit synthetic slates. She has lost 3 slates. Eternit has been out of business for about 6 years. Does anybody know of anybody who has stocked pile Eternit slates? | ||
| Joe Jenkins (Admin) |
You might have to cannabilize a section of roof to get the tiles (like a rear dormer section), then slate the cannabilized section. | ||
| robin |
I think I have every size and colour of eternit slate in stock here, just tell me size in cm and colour and I'll send them to u.. Eternit out of business??? they were never before as big as nowadays... weird | ||
| slateworks |
How long before the Quarries in US start to run out of S1 slate? Just wondering this on my way home from work..At some point will Slaters in the future have to purchase imported slate? | ||
| Stephen J Taran |
I come from 4 generations of slate quarry owners. My family has been in it along time and has only run 2-3 quarries in the last 60 years and these still have hundreds of years left along with the other 25 or so that they own that have not been touched. There is so much more land on the slate vein that is yet to be mined. Also the S1 slate will always be there it is what the slate is made of that keeps it S1 not how it is made. Though there are a few companys out there selling slate from Vermont that the quality NEEDS to be a lot better. but alot of time the cheapest price wins the slate sale and you always get what you pay for. | ||
| slateworks |
Thanks for the reply ,that's good to know..Stephen I will be pricing a couple of slate roofs ,once I get measurements and type of slate needed I will send you an email to get a quote from you for material. Thanks, Ron | ||
| Anne Horton |
I was wondering what company sells the highest quality S1 slate? Would this be a Vermont company? Steven Taran - where is your quarry? Thanks, Anne Riverton NJ | ||
| John Chan |
I think that most slaters would consider Buckingham slate mined in Virginia to be the best slate. | ||
| Joe Jenkins (Joe) |
Buckingham, like Vermont slate, historically has shown a range of qualities. I can show you 135 year old Buckingham that is shot, and VT unfading green or purple slate about the same age that is quite good. I can also show you 120 year old Buckingham that is nearly perfect. So it depends on the rock deposit and other factors, not just the source quarry or area. Granted, Buckingham has historically been a good slate, but so has a lot of Vermont slate. Peachbottom is the same - some phenomenal and some not so durable, depending on the source quarry, the quarry operators perhaps, and undoubtedly a host of other factors. |
