| Author | Message | ||
     Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 750 Registered: 01-2009 |
Not to rain on your rant Brandon, but all he has to do to made the roof modern and old school at the same time is to install the insulation between the new sleepers and make the sleepers a bit higher so that there is a constant air space for the air to flow. The insulation will keep the heat in during the winter and keep the heat out in the summer and the air space will keep everything dry and ventilated. As long as the air is flowing, you will have no problems. I find it interesting that the IFD has members all the way from the artic circle to the tropics. They have to do something to hold down the heating costs and to fight the ice buildup in the freezing zones. A cold roof solves both problems. | ||
| Branden_wilson (Branden_wilson) Senior Member Username: Branden_wilson Post Number: 101 Registered: 03-2008 |
as with all of life but especially with a slate roof it's important to look backward rather than forward to find the truth. condensation and heat loss are new problems created by new methods NOT old problems with new solutions. over sealing and insulating has created unusual problems. newer buildings are built with bad fundamentals and often require things like caulk and extra insulation to function properly, temporarily. but history has shown us the truth and anyone who works on hundred year old buildings have SEEN the truth. they still may not believe it but they have witnessed the fact that breathability and proper fundamentals are the number one reasons those buildings are still functioning and standing. i know everyone hates the truth but i'm not lukewarm, especially when it comes to slate roofs. i know no one wants to hear it but as long as i live i'm going to do my best to help the truth stay alive (barely). the truth is never as profitable as a lie which technically makes the truth a bad business practice. this is why people won't but should go back to hiring REAL slaters rather than business owners. the motive is clear and intent is everything. we are only reaping what we have previously sowed. the fruit has gone bad and will only continue to get worse. great business for businessmen though! sorry to rant on your topic, i'll go back to my cave now! REAL SLATER | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) Junior Member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2011 |
Thanks everyone. I don't think they are opposed to traditional methods, but with the exposed decking, there's nowhere else to put the insulation. I'm pretty sure we're going in with adding the framing. A tougher up front sell, but a better end product. Thanks again for the responses. | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 693 Registered: 01-2007 |
Here are some more pictures and links. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monier-dachsysteme.de%2Fprodukte%2Fdaemmung.html    | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 691 Registered: 01-2007 |
A produce from Monier Group was at the IFD The IFD/International Federation for the Roofing Trade this year. This may be a good way to go!! http://www.monier.com/insulation.html MONIER Group Services GmbH Frankfurter Landstrasse 2-4 61440 Oberursel Germany  | ||
| Branden_wilson (Branden_wilson) Senior Member Username: Branden_wilson Post Number: 99 Registered: 03-2008 |
if they have to have the iso i'd do exactly as old school said fasho REAL SLATER | ||
| Branden_wilson (Branden_wilson) Senior Member Username: Branden_wilson Post Number: 98 Registered: 03-2008 |
why are they against traditional methods? REAL SLATER | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) Junior Member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2011 |
They're on the shady side, so not the best photos;    | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 660 Registered: 07-2006 |
Post photos of the other side. John - you can tell there are galvanized snow guards because of the rust stains on the roof. | ||
| John_chan (John_chan) Senior Member Username: John_chan Post Number: 94 Registered: 08-2006 |
From the pictures, it looks like Pennsylvania Bed Black. The south side of Penn Black roofs always deteriorate much quicker than the north side, because of the excessive UV rays a building gets on the south side. The impurities in slate (calcite and iron sulfides) undergo a chemical change and become gypsum. This is what causes the slate to flake/delaminate, because the gypsum molecules are about twice the size volume-wise of the calcite and iron molecules. The internal stress causes the flaking that is prevalent in Penn Bed Black slates. | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) New member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2011 |
The plot thickens.....we were kicking this around the office and were wondering if the insulation had any effect on the slate. The pictures I posted are from the South elevation, which gets sun about 90% of the time. The other side does not and appears to be in good shape. The slate, I'm being told, was quarried in one of the Carolinas, if that helps. Thoughts? | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) New member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2011 |
Joe, email sent and yes they are galvanized. I'm being told the roof dates back to 1951, not that old in terms of slate. At this point, I'm leaning towards Old School's recommendation. It appears the Fesco board is still available, but on a "made to order" basis. Who knows if it's the same product as back then. Thanks for the replys and if anyone else has thoughts, please chime in! | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 747 Registered: 01-2009 |
That is the old Fesco board insulation, which is about no insulation as far as R value. It is quite dense and that is why it held up as it did. that is also the reason it doesn't insulate very well. You can get the same thing basically as a dense fibre board from ABC supply. we use it beneath EPDM rubber roofs occasionally. If they want insulation on top of the exposed deck, I would still go with my original suggestion. Good luck. Joe, where do you see an ice guard; galvanized or otherwise? | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 658 Registered: 07-2006 |
How old is the assembly? It looks like it held up OK, in which case it could be duplicated. | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 657 Registered: 07-2006 |
Are those galvanized snow guards? If so, that is a great photo showing why not to use them. Can I use this photo and do you have a higher resolution copy? Would you email it to joe at josephjenkins.com? | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) New member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2011 |
That's not a bad idea, thanks for the reply. In case anyone is interested, attached are a few pics;    | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 746 Registered: 01-2009 |
If they want to do it like that, just install some sleepers on the roof (2x2's)and install 1 1/2" Iso urethane between them and then cover it with 1 x decking. Just install the slate over that. You will be a lot better off and it will be a lot easier to nail correctly without over driving the nails. You would be begging for the slates to crack all over on the other scenario! | ||
| Timtrain35 (Timtrain35) New member Username: Timtrain35 Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2011 |
Greetings all. We are looking at a church project that currently has a slate roof. The slate on the south elevation is in need of replacement. However, the assembly is somewhat odd. Slate, felt, 1" insulation, decking (exposed on the inside). They are looking to replicate this on the re-roof section and i'm a little concerned about this assembly, particularly nailing the slates through the insulation. Anyone seen something similiar? Should I figure on using 1" ISO? Thoughts.... |
