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admin
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

R. Ryan Eby,

The average PA teacher earns $50,000/year working 9 months. If the average slate roofer earned that much in that period of time and also had a teacher's benefits, such as pension and insurance, they would all be quite happy, regardless of the brutal work environment. But they don't. Public school teachers easily make more money that the average slate mechanic, and although a teacher may accumulate a tiny bit of sweat under their collar once in a while, they don't even come close to the physical exertion daily experienced by slaters.

When it comes to "showcasing ignorance," you are certainly a good teacher.
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R. Ryan Eby
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hold on just a minute Mr. Admin. I am a Pennsylvania Teacher who happens to work commercial roofing over the summers. As a fourth year teacher, I brought home $838 every two weeks. My average number of hours in a given week was about 50 hours. So, $838 divided by 100 hours (2 weeks) equals $8.38 an hour. Now I realize that's take home rate & I do have great benefits, but don't showcase your ignorance by making such comments about school teachers making more money. In fact, I was informed that my roofing co-workers actually brought home about $150 more per week when they were drawing unemployment!!!
This summer I worked in the Harrisburg area making $41.30 an hour. I netted well over $1,000 in a 40 hour week. (More than 2X my weekly net income as a teacher!!!)
I'll agree that roofing is a very physically demanding job, but I will also tell you this: With the emotional stressors (administrators breathing down your back, 25 to 35 students in your classroom, and the fact that most teachers are on their feet 90% of the time, I'm nearly as wiped out from a day of teaching as I am from roofing...God's honest truth!!!
I take great offense with your comment about not breaking a sweat...my school doesn't have AC and neither do most PA schools.
So, until you truly know what teachers earn and what they experience, leave teachers out of your "Feel Sorry for Roofers Campaign!" By the way, how much sweat do you break sitting in your AC office typing your responses?
If teachers have it so nice, why didn't you pursue that career? Last I knew, anyone has the freedom to pursue higher education. Also, if we make so much money as teachers why the heck do I need to "risk my life" over the summer? I'm certainly not roofing for the enjoyment!!!
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darrah
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many squares per day should an average slater get down on a new roof with a very simple gable design, no valleys, hips, etc.
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admin
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With a helper, already set up, about 4.
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Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if we pay the roofer and helper each $400/day,
that's $800 for 4 squares or $200/square for
installation.

That's why I don't understand why everyone talks
about average fees of $500-$1500 per square for
installation.

-- David Zimmerli
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slateworks
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Labor-Insurance-liabilty/workmens comp./unemployment/holidays/Health benefits/Truck Insurance/Gasoline/Upkeep/Building expenses(Shop)/Taxes-It is very expensive to be a roofer in the Northeast-Plus you have limited days you can work due to weather..To install 4 sq./day-,Example 24" x 12" slate 115pcs/sq x 4= 460pcs.Divided by 8 hrs.=57.5 pcs./hour..20" x 10" slate- 85 pcs/hour..So the size of slate may limit installation to 2 to 3 square a day depending on access,penetrations,flashing ect.And there are days you can put 4 square a day on,but some days you may only get 1 or 2.Yes you can make a good living,but at the same time you are working on a roof(which insurance companies rate as one of the most dangerous professions)We are exposed to the sun more than most with direct and indirect rays,It takes a toll on ones body over the years ect..There are many other factors that are part of the price per square,also as the homeowner you have the right to shop for other bids.
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admin
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You *could* pay $200/square for installation if *you* provide all of the slates, all of the scaffolding, all of the tools, all of the insurances, all of the payroll taxes, workers comp, unemployment insurance, transportation of materials and workers, all of the other equipment and materials, and have the roof totally prepared, felted, and ready to go so that the installer only has to show up and pound nails all day. Otherwise, someone else has to do all of the above and that someone else is also being paid, as are all the associated expenses listed above (there are other expenses as well, such as truck insurance, shop time, shop expenses and overhead, and miscellaneous overhead expenses that a business has to endure such as advertising, payroll services, tax preparation, accounting, all of which must be paid out of the money charged for the installation).

There is a big difference between hiring an individual to do work and hiring a business to provide a service. An individual who is simply working for you does not have the expenses that a business does.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, OK, I apologize if I touched a raw nerve
here...

The $400/day is the rate I pay my slate roofer
friend when he comes over. I had assumed this
was the going rate for an independent contractor
who would then deal with taxes/insurance/overhead
on his own. Or, alternatively, if the
customer/employer was paying for that kind of
stuff, then the workers would get less than
$400/day.

I realize that setup of scaffolding, etc. is
an extra cost but I had assumed that on a reason-
able sized project it wouldn't add more than
10-25%.

Anyway, I have never run this kind of business
and many of you have, so I was not accusing
anyone of anything, just trying to understand
the cost structure better.

Regards,
David Zimmerli
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Larry
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hate to stir up the pot here and I am the first to agree that a roofer should be paid the going rate, hourly rate plus fringe benefits. I know exactly what other union trades (or nonunion trades) are paying here in the midwest (I can't speak for those out east or on the west coast). Let's take a look at plumbers, electricians, or bricklayers. Here in the midwest, a union bricklayer hourly labor rate plus fringes is $33.19 and that quotes comes to me directly from the union. When I had some brickwork done, I actually paid around $50 per hour but I was aware of the rates and the brickie I hired was exceptional. Plumbers are paid even higher with less risk $50 to $60 per hour is the range. My brother's a union electrician and there rate plus fringes is $36.00 per hour. Now, my brother mentioned that if I called a electrical company and they send someone out to my house, the hourly rate will be billed around $40 to $45 per hour. So, with the exception of higher insurance rates, I can't see why the roofer should be paid anymore than these other trades. "Admin" responded on Dec 20 (see above) that he deserves to recoup insurance, taxes, etc. Sure, I agree, that what "Fringe benefits" are.

We should not have to pay for downtime. I am all for paying good wages but not $80 to $100 or more per hour for a complete new slate roof. Too many people charge by the job where they should be charging time & material. More power to then if they succeed at it. I also understand that putting on a slate roof requires a lot of "set-up" time and this time should be billed at the hourly rate as well. In addition, to an hourly rate plus fringe benefits, there's nothing wrong with applying a mark-up to material to cover transaportion, freight, shipping, gas, material handling, etc..

Make the wage rate competive and you may see an increase in slate roof construction; especially here in the midwest where there are not the volume that you have out east.
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admin
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Add the element of risk when working at heights. The worker deserves a greater pay when he or she is risking his or her neck to get a job done. It's easy working when standing on the ground. Try it at 30 or 40 feet in the air on a 45 degree surface in the hot sun. Then throw on top of that the 40% add-on per payroll dollar for insurance, and then consider the required equipment, and you will have some idea of how roofing rates are charged. School teachers make more money here in Pennsylvania then slate roofers and they never break a sweat or get their hands dirty, let alone risk their lives daily.

I have never heard of slate roofers earning $80 to $100/hour. No one would pay that - they would just buy the cheap "Wal Mart roof" (asphalt shingles) and let someone else worry about the roof later when it has to be replaced. That's what most people do these days.
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Chris Drialo
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Larry and Anonymous,
You always get what you pay for. My experience is simple. People who shop price always get burned and NEVER seam to learn from their mistakes. This is the sole reason why incompetent contractors are able to exist. So here is a tip for all you folks who •••• diamonds. If you go to any local bar...on any given day...at any given time...you will find your man!!!

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