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David Zimmerli
New member
Username: Lv_pa

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree that licensing/certification would be much better done through the SRCA. Unfortunately, I have found with other trades and professions, that state licensing doesn't necessarily protect you from rip-offs ... :( Also, I assume we don't want to create legal problems for the do-it-yourselfers (like me!) who have been so inspired by this website.
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Slate Affair Inc.
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 270
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 06:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well it don't have to be are government that we get the license from but are SRCA that gives out the license. This could be alot like a slater guild. I also don't think that there any real money in it for the government or anyone.
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David Zimmerli
New member
Username: Lv_pa

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, brother. You think the government is going to do a better job of regulating slate roofers than it did with banks and mortgage companies?
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Slate Affair Inc.
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 266
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 06:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andriana thats a great idea of haveing a slate roof License.
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Tim Dittmar
Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andriana-
some parts of the roof will perform flawlessly for a half-century(or more)- who knows? Some areas subject to the most adverse forces could fail in short order- chronic wetness(north side of roof or shaded areas), acids(such as in rain, tree sap from oak trees), salt ocean air -- could begin to fail in your lifetime... but again, these sort/s of projections can be extremely subjective- chances are good for few or no failures while you own the roof??
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Andriana McMahon
New member
Username: Andy_h

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 03:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The original slate roof was removed as it was coming to near the end of its useful life. Thank you for your response.
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Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the original roof removed because of failure of the nails or was the slate becoming near the end of it's useful life??
Many roofs have lasted 80 to over 100 years with just cut iron nails - because thats all they had.
If the other features of the roof install were decent then I would guess you could expect 50 plus years without nails failing.
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Andriana McMahon
New member
Username: Andy_h

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

Thank you all for your comments. The contractor will not replace roof, this is what I had asked him to do originally which was some time ago, he is only willing to give guarantee plus take a cost reduction of 1/4 over the roof. What will help me is to understand how long (approximately) will the electro galvanized nails last on the assumption that all else is correct. i.e. will the slate start falling off in a year, 5 years or ten? This will help me decide what action to take and what to negotiate. As he is doing further work on our house going through legal may be complicated and take very long. Any comments on longevity of nails will be much appreciated. Regarding other items on roof we had two slate roofers inspect the installation of roof soon after installation was completed using wrong nails, basically they both found some minor items that can be fixed however one said that the slate was nailed to tightly. The other roofer said it was not. The one that said it was too tight was the roofer we hired and the other roofer which said that the slate was not nailed too tightly was hired by the contractor to do an independant inspection. I would like to get a third inspection given difference of opinion on this important point. Can someone recommend a slate roof specialist in long island NY? Please note that both roofers put their findings on paper, with their letterhead. Regarding verifying that they have used north country slate, I will be asking their supplier for a receipt and I will also send a sample piece of what has been used on our roof up to Canada for verification. Joe, I am currently reading your book "the slate roof bible". I thought I had done my homework prior to installation i.e. what nails to use etc and specified details in contract but I got unlucky. For the sake of other customers, I hope that in the future, all slate roofers would have to have a special license to install slate and that there is a governing body who oversees their work. This will hopefully help weed out roofers who claim they are slate roofers yet use nails that are for shingle roofs. I appreciate your comments and I am glad that their is such a forum.
Thank you in advance. Andriana
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Ward Hamilton
Advanced Member
Username: Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration

Post Number: 49
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't pay him a cent until he gives you EXACTLY what the contract called for: North Country Black fastened with COPPER nails. And, as Joe said, make sure they used the right slate (call and verify with supplier.) The contractor's integrity has been compromised. You should get a consultant to determine if any other corners were cut:

* Ice & water membranes
* The slate (as mentioned above)
* Are you SURE he used copper nails on flashing details?
* Other aspects of job unknown

Then tell him he can honor his contract and install the roof properly or take his ass down the road. Period. If you're still dealing with him on other work (addd'n, etc) don't give him his final check until he takes care of it.
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Tim Dittmar
Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe- really am glad you "chimed" in on this one- your thoughts(and vitriol) are as mine but I've not really "blasted away" at someone yet as doubtless you have(many times?)- figured you were the "big gun" at this site and I'd just duck and cover and wait/watch... whew! oh, yeah... the guarantee- better keep your receipt and make sure your heirs do, too- and also make sure someone inherits/buys the roof contyractors interest and continues to hold the "bag". Also much w/ Joe on the question/s: what else did "they" get wrong or fudge or sweep under the mat?- if the roof is to be reinstalled, it might be wise to have an independent inspector ("they" pay for his/her services- not you.. and everybody keeps on being civil to each other)to check off all particulars noted and agreed by both parties to be brought to spec's- the inspector could be empowered to halt work for recurring breaches, etc.? Well, anyhow- I could go on but someone in this mess will bring up these ideas? ** Andriana- don't fool around, please beware of the statute of limitations for construction- it does not work in YOUR favor! Nothing special about "them" nails- most readily available roofing fastener on the planet...
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 317
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andrianna,

It is my unfortunate job to be a slate roof consultant and to have to go and look at newly completed roofs that were installed incorrectly. Some of the roofs are huge, but they have to be completely removed and reslated. Some of it ends up in litigation, which costs a lot of money and takes years, the entire time diminishing the quality of the property owner's life due to stress.

Let me say that if the contractor can't follow the simple specifications in the contract regarding nail type, then the problem of the nails may only be the tip of the iceberg. What else did he ignore? Where else did he cut corners? What about the headlap? Is it adequate? Are you sure he used North Country slate and not Chinese black? I would be extremely pissed off if I had specified copper nails in the contract and the contractor used electro-galvanized nails instead, in direct violation of the contractual obligations.

You have the right to insist that the roof be installed according to your contractual agreement, assuming you have a written, signed contract. Until the roof is installed correctly, according to your written agreement, you do not have to pay for the work. Once you have paid for the work, you lose a *lot* of leverage with the contractor.

If you one money, hang onto it until you get this resolved. If the contractor walks off the job, good riddance. Put a lawyer on him.
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Andriana McMahon
New member
Username: Andy_h

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Agree on the warranty. We are in such a difficult position. Really do not know what to do. It is so fustrating. I went to great lengths in contract,specify type of nail to be used etc yet I was unlucky.
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Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 97
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What are the chances he'll be in business in 50 years ? That warrantee is not worth any more than his talk along the way.
I'm working on a roof now that was installed in the late 19 teens with just iron nails and they're still mostly sound.
If nailed correctly those nails should last a long time.
This isn't to condone their falsehoods -- just stating if the install was done well the nails will last longer than that warrantee.
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Andriana McMahon
New member
Username: Andy_h

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 06:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your thoughts. Long story on how I noticed, but here goes. On day one of installation I noticed nails that looked silvery in color (p.s. I am not a nail expert), I asked the sub-contractor and he said they are not copper (apart from under flashing). Spoke with contractor and he said that copper nails are too soft and the nails they are using are better. On day two I asked what type of nail i.e. hot dipped or eletcro and for the next 2 days they said hot dipped. I would of been okay with hot dipped (from the quick research that I did). On day 4 I still had my doubts and asked for a nail. I took the nail to someone who can recognize the difference between nails and they told me that they are electro galvinized. The contractor pointed fingers at sub-contractor. However they both lied, more than once and by this stage the roof was complete. I met with contracter and demanded he install roof as per contract or we would not pay. We would not accept this. Subsequently we found out more issues with roof which he is going to fix. In addition to price reduction, he agreed to fix some items and also offer a 50 year guarantee. At the time we did not want to go to court as the contractor was in the middle of a 2 story addition on our house which he has nearly finished. P.S. We got an independent slate roofer to inspect roof and he said slate was nailed to tightly, the contractor also had an independant slate roofer inspect job and he said that nails are incorrect however slate was nailed correctly i.e. not too tightly. The contractor made this offer a few months ago and we have not yet decided on what we should do. Any other comments from yourself or other slate roof specialists would be much appreciated.
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Tim Dittmar
Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andriana- it's unfortunate that you spec'd copper nails and didn't get them- how did you find out about the switch? If you'd gotten s/s nails, some appropriate alloy nail, or hot-dipped electro-galvanized(even, as before) I'd say don't worry excessively. It sounds as if you got plain old roofing tacks(nails) that are the cheapest available- very bad generally speaking but, even so, the sunny side of the roof, in future, will not have nail deterioration at the rate that the wetter for longer periods areas will. For us in the business, this sounds much like "gross" breach of contract but problems w/ slate roofs take awhile to show up sometimes- I personally would not accept a mere cost-difference refund from the installer- something bigger would be much more like it- is it insane to require a re-installation that's at least up to spec's? This may be a topic for a legal specialist, I fear...
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Andriana McMahon
New member
Username: Andy_h

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

Our contractor installed a new slate roof on our house using North Country Black slate as per contract. However he did not use the nails we specified in contract. He used electro galvanized nails instead of copper nails. He used copper nails only under the copper flashing. I am very concerned about the longevity of the electro galvanized nails. Will I have issues in the long -term? How long will these nails last? The contracter is accepting a material price reduction. Look forward to your comments. P.S. The house was built in the 1930's, the entire slate roof was replaced. The original nails were hot dipped galvanized nails.

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