| Author | Message | ||
     Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 74 Registered: 01-2009 |
Hey Rodney, how do you like working with my brothers gutters! You did a nice job installing them. Old school from Kalamazoo, Michigan | ||
| Biggutter (Biggutter) New member Username: Biggutter Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hi guys, goto www.classicgutterguards.com There you can see some of our shop made curved gutters that we built and installed. I think they look better than hydraulic gutters, because it looks like old world craftmanship. Although time consuming, these jobs are very rewarding. Thanks for looking Rodney Richardson | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2006 |
Eric, I'm done with that project but I'll probably take some video next week. We're working on repairs this week in-between the snow. | ||
| Braymer (Braymer) Senior Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 62 Registered: 09-2008 |
Wire wheel action here.. Mr J. and Mr U. http://josephjenkins.com/videos/express_hi_res.wmv Please dont let this stop the videos and photos of your project, great work. Its really good to see this stuff- thanks. | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 353 Registered: 01-2007 |
So, did you set any rope for that work Kwhord, I see the basket lift. | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2006 |
Eric, I think that's what flux is for  Thanks John! Tell Steve to hurry up and move that slate I have sitting in your lot in C-bus. Baby needs new shoes. | ||
| Braymer (Braymer) Senior Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 58 Registered: 09-2008 |
I grind everything before soldering, it seems to go more smoothly and stick better on the first pass. Always when sweating joints in plumbing, and with brandy new copper - roughing up the surface and displacing any oils that are on the metal helps alot for me. But I need all the help I can get.. | ||
| John_chan (John_chan) Junior Member Username: John_chan Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2006 |
Nice work, Kurtis! | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2006 |
First time I've ever heard of anyone doing that on bright copper was here. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think it's necessary on new copper. If the copper has oxidized it is an important step but otherwise I think it's overkill. | ||
| Braymer (Braymer) Senior Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 57 Registered: 09-2008 |
Hi Kurtis, Do you also grind or wire brush the joints before fluxing them? | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2006 |
I usually wear a mask when I solder, but it would have been hard to talk with the mask on | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2006 |
Joe, there's only one downspout so a conventional expansion joint couldn't be employed. There is basically a relief point in the back because this isn't a complete circle. I modeled this assembly in solidworks, before we started construction of the pans. Because of the tight radius and the construction method: most of the force of expansion acts outward at tangents from the arc. To accommodate for this I gave some extra space in the trough at the front and rear walls there is an air space. There is very little linear (circular) expansion. In a round gutter with a more subtle curve like the one pictured previously in this thread, more force is concentrated lengthwise along the strongest points of the material (around the bends or locked seams). I don't like soldering from the top-down I've tried it and it runs out above the torch head. My joints aren't pretty yet but I know they are sweat fully. I usually solder the backs first and then use the small amount of solder that falls to sweat the bottom joint. | ||
| Plaughlin1 (Plaughlin1) Member Username: Plaughlin1 Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2007 |
Nice video Kurtis, Doesn't breathing the flux fumes make you feel lousy?? I use LA-CO and after breathing the fumes for a hour or so it really starts to hit you, i had to start wearing a resporator. | ||
| Joe (Joe) Senior Member Username: Joe Post Number: 354 Registered: 07-2006  |
No expansion joints? Have you ever tried soldering vertical joints from the top down? | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 142 Registered: 10-2006 |
Finished up the round gutter yesterday. We took some videos of soldering a vertical seam, which I am terrible at. Part 1: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5035164212281465925&hl=en Part 2: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1383904267062440272&hl=en View of the finished gutter: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8301091025793504507&hl=en Pictures here: http://quo-animo.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Braymer (Braymer) Senior Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 54 Registered: 09-2008 |
These clips are great -clear and informative, keep 'em coming. Thanks much, Kurtis. Good stuff. | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2006 |
I use pieces of seamless downspout stock to make my drops. This gutter has one 3" outlet. | ||
| Plaughlin1 (Plaughlin1) Member Username: Plaughlin1 Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2007 |
Very Nice work Kurtis, what type of drains-outlets do you guys usually use on a built in install like this? Just a undersized drop? | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2006 |
Okay I was planning on showing my process for forming a radius gutter using short segments (usually about 18") but the radius was just too tight on this one, so we formed 6' pans out of 4 pieces. Video here for forming the pans: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1841910805527541440 | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2006 |
The problem with the crimper is: you don't get a flat surface on the edge you turn and you can only reduce. The stretcher is what I was using on the drip and it leaves a uniform, non-marred surface if you use it properly. | ||
| Shrllc (Shrllc) Intermediate Member Username: Shrllc Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2008 |
A shrinker also known as reducer is also available in a hand held model which is ideal when reducing down spout pipe. Also works well when fabricating curved panels for arch back roof coverings and radius drip edge. Stay warm Kurtis! | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2006 |
Another day of snow and rain. In-between all that we managed to get some drip-edge installed and finish up the rebuild of the trough. Video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-184783031827844482 Tomorrow we form pans and start soldering... | ||
| Braymer (Braymer) Senior Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 51 Registered: 09-2008 |
Thanks Kurtis, video is very helpfull. | ||
| Joe (Joe) Senior Member Username: Joe Post Number: 352 Registered: 07-2006 |
Nice video. Excellent example of using a shrinker/stretcher. Looking forward to seeing more. | ||
| Shrllc (Shrllc) Member Username: Shrllc Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2008 |
Eric, A third piece of copper is used to lock onto the back lock of the gutter and to act as a return up the cone. | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2006 |
Video of forming the drip edge here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1612112321764690766&hl=en Pictures of the tear-off here: http://quo-animo.blogspot.com/2009/01/rebuilding-and-re-lining-radius-box.html More photos to follow with progress... | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm doing one this week, I'll be sure to take lots of photos. | ||
| Joe (Joe) Senior Member Username: Joe Post Number: 351 Registered: 07-2006 |
Why don't you guys who are doing soldered radius gutters send some photos in for the Traditional Roofing Magazine? Email to: joe at josephjenkins.com. | ||
| Plaughlin1 (Plaughlin1) Member Username: Plaughlin1 Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2007 |
I Am just finishing up about a 450 linear foot project of radiused gutter - i agree with w\Kurtis, i think it is better to do it in segments instead of using linear joints. I usually Pretin the joints -rivet it togather on 2" centers & solder with a acetylene setup with a 1 1/4lb copper. I don't think you can go wrong with this. | ||
| Shrllc (Shrllc) Member Username: Shrllc Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2008 |
Eric, The gutter on our web site is of a two piece design, soldered in the shop with gutter bar installed, before installation on the roof. Another alternative is to cut sections of traditional gutter to lengths approximately 8 -16 inches and weave the pieces together and solder. In this area, most of the original radius gutters I come across were done in this fashion. Works well and looks like a radius from the ground. The disadvantage is in the labor used to cut, weave and solder all the seams when doing a large radius. I will try to post a picture of the old gutter we removed. | ||
| Kwhord (Kwhord) Senior Member Username: Kwhord Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2006 |
Joe, they probably just used a crimping tool on the drip edge. I'm not a fan of running linear seams like that; and the CDA and SMACNA warn against it in all of their publications. That being said, they must have soldered them very well to hold up for 80 years. | ||
| Slate_man (Slate_man) Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 340 Registered: 01-2007 |
You can get Vulcan Supply in Vermont to fab fully press 1 pcs gutter pcs. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Junior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2009 |
Man, they sure did a nice job on the gutters and the slate on that one. It is amazing that if you take your time, good things happen! | ||
| Joe Jenkins (Joe) Senior Member Username: Joe Post Number: 350 Registered: 07-2006 |
Here's a photo of a curved copper box gutter built in 1938 that's still good. The top photo shows how it's made. Note the four solder seams. The only actually curved copper sections are the bottom piece and the top front edge, and the curves are shallow enough that the pieces can be cut out of flat stock with little waste. I suppose there's a front drip edge that's curved as well. Maybe made with a hand operated shrinker/stretcher.  | ||
| Eric Braymer Advanced Member Username: Braymer Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2008 |
Jeffrey, I saw some nice rounded gutters on your site under "Custom Copper Gutters". Was the front and back piece fabricated together in the shop first or installed in two pieces on site? Those are impressive shots. Your diameter may have been bigger than 10 feet, but they are a good example. | ||
| Jeffrey C Stone Member Username: Shrllc Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2008 |
In my experience with "true" radius gutters it is made from two pieces and soldered together. Machines are available for this process, although very expensive. I would suggest locating a metal fabrication shop in your local area and have them produce the gutter for you. I believe the last radius gutter I installed ran about $80/linear foot to produce. | ||
| John R. Crookston Junior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2009 |
My brother is in the process of getting a machine to curve the gutters. It is hydralic press that "stretches" the metal and it will make about 8 foot sections. You have to start with a heavier gauge metal because of the stretching effect. When he says he is going to do something he will always get it done, so I will keep you all informed. | ||
| AF New member Username: Tonyeriepa Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2007 |
Thanks, Liam, I'll go check on those. | ||
| Slate Affair Inc. Senior Member Username: Slate_man Post Number: 101 Registered: 01-2007 |
Go to - www.nabocker.com or www.irvansmith.com (They are about $300.00. For what you get they work very well, you can spend more.) | ||
| AF New member Username: Tonyeriepa Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2007 |
A round roof question! I learned at the SRCA Conference that there's supposedly a hand tool (ie not a big metal-fabricating shop machine) that would allow me to stretch/shrink copper to make the edge 90deg fold-ups for a standing seam roof for a 10ft diameter curved roof for the front porch of my house. I've looked high and low on the web for the tool but haven't found it. Would anybody have any details on what it's called or a description or picture of what it looks like?? | ||
| Paul Kinkus |
I have taken Alcoa gutter with the ogee front (K-style?) and cut the front and back of the gutter off. Then I made a form of the right radius by stacking pieces of plywood that had shapes routed on them to add up to the same profile as the gutter. Then I hammered the cut-off front part of the gutter on the form with auto body hammers. It ends up slightly rough, but I plan to use auto body putty to smooth it out (this is something I am still working on). I'm going to try to find a sheet metal shop that can attach the curved bottom to the back and front with some kind of lock seam with a burring(?) machine. Sound like a lot of work? Try the copper that Stephen Taran recommends. Good luck- Paul | ||
| Stephen J Taran |
Go to www.americanmastergutters.com click on the ornamental copper box they have and sell curved gutter square and halh round | ||
| Joe Jenkins |
You will probably have to fabricate your own from existing gutter stock (copper?) by cutting the gutter into short sections and soldering it together. Don't forget expansion joints. | ||
| matt weldin |
my current project home has a round roof. i dont know if this is the place but im looking for help finding a gutter system that will fit a conical shaped roof. if anyone can help i would appreciate it. matt |
