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Ward Hamilton
Intermediate Member
Username: Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration

Post Number: 40
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We did a non-slate roof job last fall on a new, SIPs panel house (combination real stucco and thin stone veneer systems http://www.wardhamilton.com/portfolio/fieldstone_walls_elements.htm) INCREDIBLE heat retention; we were often leaving the door open during the inside work! Call me crazy, but couldn't you add 1/2 plywood, Grace it, and go? I mean, supposedly, the panels that comprise the roof/walls don't 'breathe' the way traditional sheathing does, and the Grace will minimize whatever does slow through. Am I missing something? (And believe me, I know I could be!)
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Slate Affair Inc.
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 258
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 06:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seth that would be the way I would install over the Sips. I did some work in Exeter NH about 4 years ago, and installed strapping before hand the way your friend in Whales suggested. We used oak nice!
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Seth McNally
New member
Username: Nomamasway

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just spoke with a good friend in Wales. He's a carpenter, and over there that means you're an expert in slate too. He suggested using counter battens(vertical) every foot or so screwed down, then a layer of horizontal battens to nail slate into. ?????
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Kurtis Hord
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well put.
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 311
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We have installed slate over SIPs by screwing 1x4 rough-sawn lumber over the felt paper on the SIPS, leaving a gap between the ends of each horizontal nailer to allow for water drainage "just in case." So far, so good. I don't like OSB and would never use it on a roof myself. It's the weak link in the chain. The roof will last as long as the OSB holds the screws.
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Tim Dittmar
Junior Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seth- I'd use 1x4's or even 5/4x4's or better to give some room for error/s(yours or others') such as not chalking lines to perfection- one needs to check and recheck to be sure the math/marking of shingle course layout is 100 percent correct when one works on nailers(putting them up w/ screws in advance to hold the paper for awhile?)- also, the extra wood will help reduce/eliminate splitting when the COPPER/SS/non-corrosive shingle nails are driven- it's not worth it to cut the corner on the nails, particularly if you are in an environment as severe(wet/frozen/not dry?) as yours. Do the math for the difference between good/better nails and the best/recommended/non-ambiguous nails- what're we talking about here $$-wise? ... and give thanks you don't have to buy the slate!! 4 ft centers sounds extreme- better calculate the load and the thicker the SIPS, the better(a truss, don'cha know)- I'll bet this stuff doesn't respond well to aggravated slate leaks/ones you don't notice quickly...
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David Spradlin
Advanced Member
Username: David_spradlin

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with Kurtis about the 1x2"s, at this point. When I've done repairs on slate roofs installed over 1/2" inch OSB you could almost pull alot of the nails out by hand, its mostly glue. Are SIP panels rated to hold the weight of a slate roof, the rafters are 4' ft. OC, correct? Possible settling in the future? Just a thought. As far as loading goes, every situation is a little different. We usually have laborers load as much as our staging will safely hold and refill as the slate is used.
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Kurtis Hord
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 77
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not in any position to give an estimate on how long a slate roof will last with a SIP substrate. Since there is no living tradition to prove their worth it's hard to say. I'm sorry I just can't get behind it.

You could run 30lb felt, then screw down 2x1 nailing strips centered to match your exposure. Then at lest you'll be nailing into solid wood and you won't have to cover the whole roof with extra material. Are nailing strips in the budget at least?
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Seth McNally
New member
Username: Nomamasway

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for your opinion Kurtis, and I agree that 1X is possibly the best way. However SIPS create an incredibly tight insulated roof, where 80% of heat is lost. This is the only 'standard' material on my home, the rest being traditional, I suppose it is more important to me to have an efficient home where I only expend the least amount of fuel necessary every winter to heat it. Let me be more clear with my question: With what is already up for decking, if I use 30 felt, 4" headleap on North, 3" on South, and nail to OSB with hot dipped galv.- how long can I expect the roof to last? Also, I'm looking for advice on a system for hauling the slate up to the roof. Thanks for anyone's time.
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Kurtis Hord
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would only ever spec materials that are common, have a historic precedent and are easily repairable and maintainable. Sips are engineered foam and OSB sandwiches and are not really sustainable because they are manufactured and cannot be repaired by the average tradesperson in the future.

Solid 1" decking or lath is the best option. In this area poplar is the best choice, but something that has a local tradition would be best in your area. The roof decking should last through 2 or 3 slate roofs, or between 200-400 years.

Marianne Cusato said it best:
If you can't afford to do it right: simplify your design until you can afford it, or don't build at all.
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Seth McNally
New member
Username: Nomamasway

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Building a New Timber Frame house in Stoddard, NH(Heaviest snowload in state). 8" ,OSB deck, SIPS just installed. 3500 reclaimed slates purchased few months ago. Energy conservation and tight roof insulation reason for choosing SIPS. Did not know OSB was bad backing for slate before reading 'Bible' last week. North roof 6/12, South 9/12 pitch. 2' overhangs on all sides to accomodate 'natural' wall system. NOW... That is the situation. I realize the decking is not good for slate purposes, and 6/12 is not ideal, but it's there and the slate is there. $$ is more than tight, as I have modest income and this home is being built out of pocket to avoid banks. Nails and flashing are a stretch, let alone buying and screwing down 1X decking over OSB. Want to build a quality, beautiful, sustainable home. Will be slating roof with my brother 4 days a week for next few months..ish...If this was your situation, how would you lay slate on SIPS?? Also, recomendations for getting slate up 12' to eve?? Pump Jacks?

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