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Bob_wewer (Bob_wewer)
New member
Username: Bob_wewer

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have found copper that is hard fastened will resist movement where it is fastened (at the joints). Also soft copper is much more resilient to thermal movement and not as rigid to split at the joints. On large jobs I have done with or without expansion joints, the only joints that broke were where hard copper was used. I learned this the hard way. If hard copper is used I always make provision for expansion joint over 20 ft from a hard set point like a drop in a gutter or an end in a built-in gutter.
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John_chan (John_chan)
Senior Member
Username: John_chan

Post Number: 100
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Branden,

We get the same type of pop up thunderstorms here in New Orleans. I've never seen "thermal shock" occur unless the joints were bad. If the joints are pre-tinned, sweat soldered and cleated to allow for thermal movement, it won't crack. Cracking is usually due to "cold" solder joints or copper installed in such a fashion that won't allow it to move. If the flat lock roof is large, it'll need expansion joints.

John
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Branden_wilson (Branden_wilson)
Senior Member
Username: Branden_wilson

Post Number: 118
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i recently installed copper gutters and standing seam copper roofing with an old school copper expert from new york on a small island in the bahamas. we were discussing flat lock and again this thermal shock thing came up. he's been working in the bahamas for over 15yrs and he says he's seen it first hand. i don't wanna believe it but this is someone who i respect and look up to. i never did contact that site ward, i'm gonna do it now. i'll be sure to report my findings.

REAL SLATER
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Ward Hamilton
Member
Username: Olde_mohawk_masonry__historic_restoration

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 06:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Branden, check out the Copper Development Association's website (www.copper.org) They have a 'Contact Us' link you could try. Pose your question to them and ask for supporting literature to show the builder. In my experience they have been helpful. While we have wide-ranging temps here in the northeast, they tend to occur over a broad span of time. I have lived in Alabama and Georgia (and visited Florida) and understand the temeperal variegates you describe. As highly-regulated as you are down there, what does Miami-Dade say about flat-lock?
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 246
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We see from 20 below F to over 100 F temperature ranges here in north western PA and flat lock works fine. It was 30 below here one year. I doubt they get those kind of temperature fluctuations in Florida.
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Branden Wilson
Junior Member
Username: Branden_wilson

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i've got a builder who doesn't want to let me use flat lock copper on flat roofs on a slate roof i am doing because of a bunch of info he has gotten on thermal shock.

the brief description as it relates to my situation is this, down here in the summer copper can reach temps well over a hundred degrees and suddenly a rain cloud can dump six inches of rain in three minutes and drop the temp of the copper down below seventy degrees and the sun comes right back out and heats it back up to well over a hundred. this is a typical summer day and all of this can happen within twenty minutes and several times a week.

his claim is that the sudden change in temperature can crack the solder joints

his solution is a built up roof (not my thing). any help here?

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