| Author | Message | ||
     Brycenesbitt (Brycenesbitt) Advanced Member Username: Brycenesbitt Post Number: 41 Registered: 08-2012 |
So "no ice & water" on a slate roof (http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR1-iceandwater.html ). How about under a tile roof? | ||
| Joe (Joe) Moderator Username: Joe Post Number: 808 Registered: 07-2006  |
This is one of the first Traditional Roofing articles I published: Why Slate Roofs Don't Need Ice and Water Membrane http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR1-iceandwater.html | ||
| Bob_wewer (Bob_wewer) New member Username: Bob_wewer Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2013 |
Man when it first came out I would felt the roof and nail the ice and water down. The heck with the sticky stuff. It is worthless. Just stay above 4 on 12 for shingles and make sure attic is insulated, air sealed and vapor barrier is on ceiling and vented intake and out (PROPERLY). The stuff is crazy. Search "UNDERLAYMENT CRAZE." I have been harping for years. I am glad to see like minded old-schoolers here. | ||
| Steveb (Steveb) New member Username: Steveb Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2012 |
I can see having an ice water barrier but there is no need for it to stick to the substrate. The old 30# cemented in a double coverage fashion worked fine. Even t&g roofs are dry at the sheathing...and yes I think everyone has seen the top portion of asphalt adhere to the bitch paper. When I felt the need on a reroof I've screwed lauan to the deck and put the membrane over that. Regular EPDM rubber works better than any of these products and it can be removed easily. Nail it in place and go. | ||
| Old_school (Old_school) Senior Member Username: Old_school Post Number: 801 Registered: 01-2009 |
Interesting! They call me "Old School" because I have been working on roofs since I was about 4 or 5 years old with my dad and I am almost 60 now so that means I have been roofing for about 55 years. I literally cut my teeth nailing shingles, and never installed or messed with slate until I was in my 20's. I remember when they first came out with the self sealing asphalt shingles. At first they were premium shingles and you had a paper strip on top of the sealant strip to peel off before you installed them. That was my job on the first roof we installed them on. I was probably 10 or 11 at the time. A year or so later, they came out with the self sealers on all shingles and the sealant strip was continuous across the whole shingle and they had the same problem. The water would get trapped by the sealant strip and could not get out. They "Un-learned" that lesson with the Durations and I knew it was going to be a problem. It is what you learn after you already know everything that makes a difference in your life. We installed thousands of squares of shingles on 3 / 12 pitches with no problems, but you have to make sure that you do the flashings right and you have to vent it too. If it is an unheated building, you will do fine with it. That is too flat for slate anyway. | ||
| Blue_sky_roofing (Blue_sky_roofing) Senior Member Username: Blue_sky_roofing Post Number: 52 Registered: 05-2010 |
Last year, I had to do a 2 sq OC Duration replacement that was 2 yrs old over an enclosed porch area. The entire porch roof leaked like a sieve (sp?) It was a 3/12 pitch and HO was 'bent on' shingles. The water just poured out of those shingles wherever I broke the seal. It turns out that there was I&W over the entire roof deck too - didn't stop it from leaking. Thank goodness the former roofer put 15# felt over the I&W! 'Make your 1st line of Defense, your best line of Defense'. I replaced with OC Oakridge (I refused to use Duration) 4.5" to the weather, and 19.5" offset. PS: OC has improved it's Duration line as of this year - THANK GOD!!! It now has a 'dashed' seal down strip to prevent water from getting trapped behind it. (Message edited by Blue Sky Roofing on March 29, 2012) | ||
| Cpaulin (Cpaulin) New member Username: Cpaulin Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2006 |
Blue sky is right on the money: we will not install ice/water shield membranes under any circumstance because it makes piecemeal repairs of slate & decking virtually impossible. We have actually had to go to city bldg. dept officials and demonstrate this to get a variance. So far we have not been turned down. Death to all sticky stuff on/in/under slate roofs! | ||
| Blue_sky_roofing (Blue_sky_roofing) Member Username: Blue_sky_roofing Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2010 |
Was talking to a contractor friend last night. He had a job where a shed dormer roof needed replaced. Found out that the WHOLE thing was I&W'd over sheeting boards. He ended up taking a sawzall down between each rafter and then rolling everything up together in 2' wide rolls. 'The roofing Apocalypse is a coming'! | ||
| Bud (Bud) New member Username: Bud Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2010 |
To the first question, no nothing under it be decking. To the next point, yes you will be replacing the deck when it's time for the next roof. A much abused product but thanks to code a necessary evil. Ventilation and Insulation are the answers but what do we know we are just roofers. I have a line in my proposal/contract that states that should I find I&W, it will require replacement of the decking at an additional cost, period, I will not waste my time trying to clean it up and go over it. Jury is out on the use of a 'divorcing' membrane, I agree with the concept and have done this, I also find that I cant work on or over the stuff when it gets hot with out damaging it...so paper goes over it. Remember as well that not all products are created equally, some I&W is inferior and will only work to satisfy code...you get what you pay for. | ||
| Blue_sky_roofing (Blue_sky_roofing) New member Username: Blue_sky_roofing Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2010 |
Baby! You hit the nail on the head for the next biggest roofing calamity to come on the scene in the following years. Roofers are going to be faced with the realization of having to rip off the first row of plywood because of this $$$$$$!! Whenever I HAVE to use I&W, I ALWAYS put a layer of 15# felt over it to act as a divorcing material between the I&W and shingles. These idiots that come up with the building codes need to spend a little time out in the real world. I&W Shield is one of the most 'abused' products on the market. If you have to rely on I&W to keep the water out of your house, then there is something wrong with your '1st line of defense', or ventilation system. I&W is not full-proof. I've seen it 'fail' on more than one occasion, - it does not seal around every single nail penetration. | ||
| S RECZKOW |
PAST FEW YEARS, I'VE BEEN NOTICING THAT WHEN WE HAVE TO STRIP A ROOF THAT WAS DONE IN THE PAST FEW YEARS WITH CERTAIN ICE SHIELD MEMBRANES, THE HEADLAP OF THE SHINGLE IS FUSED TO THE MEMBRANE. MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE A SMOOTH CLEAN SURFACE TO INSTALL NEW ROOF SHINGLE. ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THIS PROBLEM? | ||
| Anonymous |
why not lay felt down first then a layer of membrane then a layer of felt? Won't the membrane still be effective but nothing sticks to it........... |
