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Benjamin (Benjamin)
Intermediate Member
Username: Benjamin

Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2013


Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LA-CO, MA flux is awesome. Cleans up very easily with WD-40.
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Realroofingbahamas (Realroofingbahamas)
New member
Username: Realroofingbahamas

Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2014
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not trying to reinvent the wheel at all but i decided to pre tin my clips as well. The wenesco solder trough makes pre tinning so easy i figured why not? Im hoping this is ok?
Also just wanted to share that i tried a few different fluxes and by far the best i found is "m-a" stainless steel flux liquid. Its very aggressive and requires more cleanup but the solder seems to stick better and smoother than anything else ive tried.
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Realroofingbahamas (Realroofingbahamas)
New member
Username: Realroofingbahamas

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2014
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just checking in on this. Ive pretinned and fabricated most of the pans but havent been able to install as of yet. The homeowner decided slate wasnt the look he was going for so after much consideration he decided on wallaba shingles. So i had to tear off the newly installed enviroshake and install a double batten system before moving forward. Im holding off on the flat lock to minimize foot traffic on it. Still installing battens now but i will be sure to post pics as we progress. I really appreciate all of the advise folks. Between all of the information you guys have published and the responses from seasoned pros on this site one can easily find the information needed to properly install a flat lock roof.
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 289
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, that continuous seam would have been soldered. And should be soldered at that pitch. I don't know how they accomplished the seam with dissimilar materials on your porch, although perhaps it was dry lapped and coated or filled with some kind of goo. They could have attempted a double lock turned down into the gutter wall also. I've done this in the past but I don't like it now. Too much stress on the pans. It's hard to tell what is going on from the photos.

Construct of similar materials, put a break in the middle if possible, and keep the corners and drop-ins loose.
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Milo (Milo)
Member
Username: Milo

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kword thanks for the response.
... "The gutters would lap onto the roof and lock under the first corse of "tiles"."..

I understand that pans were soldered together but does the above mean that the gutters were run up the roof perhaps 12-15" and single locked to the roof pans without any soldering (relying on the pitch and the 12-15" run up the roof to keep the joint between the gutter sections and pans water tight)? This would make sense as the roof pans on my roof were defintiely steel (terneplate)and the gutters are copper. Perhaps a "boundry" of tar paper was put between the two to prevent galvanic reaction between the different metals?

Thanks,
MILO
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Monday, July 28, 2014 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Milo that's terneplate. It's put together just like flat lock copper roofs. They would usually put the gutter pans together in the shop as long strips and then form them with gutter tongs on-site. The gutters would lap onto the roof and lock under the first corse of "tiles". You can replicate it with Rezibond for a traditional painted steel roofing look. If replicating is not in your budget: you could coat the whole thing with hydrostop and finish with a "tin" color like red or patina green.
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Milo (Milo)
Member
Username: Milo

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also have a question concerning a flat lock roof.

I have a porch roof which originally was a "tin" flat soldered locked one that was attached to a copper built in gutter system. When I moved in I found the roof to be in poor shape and leaking. It had several layers of paint, tar, etc.etc. and I hired someone to put a membrane type rolled roofing as a temp. solution to the leaking roof.

My question concerns how a flat locked copper roof connects into the built in gutters with a low pitched roof like mine. Is the gutter system built and solder together (using smaller separate sections like the flat lock) and then soldered to the flat lock section so that the entire roof is one "floating" system. (precautions would be made to ensure that the gutters trough did not get "stuck" in the downspout corners and was allowed to contract/expand and move with the rest of the roof).

Because of the low pitch I couldn't see how the gutter system could be attached to the flat lock section by any other method other than soldering in order to keep the roof water tight.

Any suggestions, info, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

MILO





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Realroofingbahamas (Realroofingbahamas)
New member
Username: Realroofingbahamas

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2014
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent thanks for the help guys. We ordered 20oz cold rolled revere copper from the states. I purchased a wenesco solder trough for simple pretinning. I am installing 4 expansion joints and the eaves will allow expansion as well as the pitch break flashings i will be installing. In other words the largest sections i have are almost 30'x 12' but will have expansion joints around the entire perimeter. Yes thermal shock is very extreme here. I believe by using 20oz cold rolled, pre tinning and plenty of expansion joints i should be fine. I appreciate all of the advise. The copper should be here by monday i will be sure to post in progress info and photos. Good news too, the pitch roofs surrounding the copper flats have newly installed enviroshake on them which i convinced the owner today to allow me to replace with slate. This will be a beautiful, long lasting roof once complete. I appreciate the support from yall and will be sure to keep all in the loop. Thx much! B
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 1073
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2014 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Copper moves 1/64 " per foot per 100 degrees. Allow for it!
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John_chan (John_chan)
Senior Member
Username: John_chan

Post Number: 147
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2014 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Generally speaking, flat lock copper should be installed with cold rolled copper or at least 1/2 hard copper. The problem with soft copper is that it's extremely malleable. Therefore, when you pound the pre-tinned panels together, they stretch and get longer. What ends up happening is that all the panels will have stretched copper at all 4 sides of every panel. This can certainly cause problems on any copper flat roof of significant size. A 20 square flat roof is huge!! I don't think I'd attempt it with soft copper.

The Copper Development Assosciation's page below is an excellent reference. You can also look in Copper and Common Sense or SMACNA guides for flat lock guides. As Kurtis said, make sure you pre-tin your panels cut from 18" x 24" blanks, and install enough control joints to allow for thermal movement.

You have to take this very seriously in the Bahamas or any such climate. The ambient temperature can be 90+ degrees with intense sun causing the surface of the copper to reach temperatures of 160 or more. Quick thunderstorms can roll in within an hour or so and drop the temperature by nearly 100 degrees in a very short period of time. Your solder joints have to be very good and your control joints have to be in the correct locations. Good luck with your project!
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 285
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Friday, July 04, 2014 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is a good spec. guide:

http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/arch-details/roofing/fl at_seam_roofing.html
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 283
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Follow the CDA guides on spacing / expansion contraction. Pre-tin all the joints. I'm not sure if soft copper is acceptable for roofing plate though, it could get pretty marred up from hail.
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Realroofingbahamas (Realroofingbahamas)
New member
Username: Realroofingbahamas

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2014
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello all. I have a 20 square flat lock to install. I have in my shop 20oz annealed copper from france. I have never used soft copper for flat lock. Ordering copper from the states takes weeks plus i have to pay a 50% duty on top of everything. The owner just wants the best. He would be extremely happy if my annealed copper will work but he doesnt want to make any compromises. Ive gotten a couple opinions but would love a couple more. Thank you so much

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