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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 264
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andy - how steep is the roof? How big?

There's no way around the expansion joints.
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andy l
New member
Username: Andyl

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

chris i have to do over an entire box gutter first question I understand the expansion joint thing every 30 ft. is there a way around not having to put in the expansion joint if you use copper? and how far do you have to go under the slates two courses? that would be 14 inches up i have 7 inch exposure on my slates currently? Also currently the gutter is about 24 inches to the outside lip to the corner of the internal gutter where there is a current seam. help
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Ricky
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have about 171 LF of 12" wide terne metal box gutters that have several areas that need repaired. These gutters are about 8" wide on the bottom with a 2" upward 45degree angle toward the drip edge. 12" under the slate.

Problems:
1. Two downspout connectors need fixed, rusted out. Leaking in soffit.
2. Nail pops at a few seams
3. Two spots that show holes.
4. Noticable soffit and wood rot, in the above ares.

I had a well known company (The DS Co)come out with an estimate of over 40k to remove and replace. At this time that is not an option. I would like to use an EPDM membrane over the gutters. To prolong the life until I can save money.

Questions:
1. Who is a good company to purchase EPDM? I'm in Rural America!
2. The gutters are painted in tinners green. What prep is necessary to adhere the rubber?
3. Is the self stick EPDM any good? I never use anything self stick. At least in my trade of flooring.
4. What life can you get out of EPDM?
5. Can this material be painted with tinners green?

If I decide to have another company come out to look at applying EPDM, what is the typical charge. Ball park range?
Sorry for the questions, I need help!

My book just arrived at the library.
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Christopher Paulin
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ricky,

The typical charge to properly line box gutters with .060 EPDM is about 1/3 to 1/2 of what it would be for 20 oz. copper: a proper installation requires removing at least 1 course of slate and running the membrane 3" under the 2nd course of slate.

Regardless of whether you put copper, terne, or EPDM back in, the wood substrate will need to be repaired.

.060 EPDM has a maximum life expectancy of 15 years while 20 oz. half-hard copper is around 75-100 years. Most companies will typically only install .030 or .045 EPDM which only lasts around 7-10 years.

Also, the common roofer familiar with EPDM will only slip the membrane a few inches under the first course of slate; this is not a proper installation because the water will pass through the keyways of the slate and travel behind the membrane. We've had to redo several 'repairs' done in this manner.

In addition, EPDM will not take or hold tinner's (or most other) paint well.


Regards,

Christopher Paulin
The Paulin Slate & Copper Co.
www.paulinslate.com
t.330.242.1574
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Ricky
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the reply.

Is a 60mil EPDM pond liner the same material used for roofing? I have priced a 60mil pond liner @ $.59/sf for a 10' x 100' and roofing EPDM @ $3.00sf for a 3/16" x 36" x 35'. There seems to be a big difference in price.

I didn't realize that to properly install EPDM I would have to remove the slate. I would rather just put in terne metal. I'm assuming that terne metal is alot cheaper than copper. What is the cost of terne metal? Is that Terne II from Follansbee?

For an immediate fix, could I just use tar and fiberglass? I'm assumming that is what "liquid asphalt emulsion" was referring too in another post.

Ricky
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Christopher Paulin
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

EPDM pond liner is unreinforced while a quality .060 EPDM roofing membrane is reinforced with a commercial polyester weft skrim. There are also significant formulation differences with regards to resistance to exposure & UV radiation.

There is some discussion but, generally, unreinforced membranes are not suitable for roofing as they have undesirable properties of elongation (think rubber balloon).

Terne metal, and stainless steel, are presently cheaper in material cost than copper. However, both metals must be worked and soldered in the same labor-intensive manner copper is for a flat-lock soldered seam roof system. That labor cost is the same regardless of the material.

You might look at a temporary fix w/the asphalt & fabric as detailed in The Slate Roof Bible to buy some time, but it's just a band-aid.

Regards,

Christopher Paulin
The Paulin Slate & Copper Co.
www.paulinslate.com
t.330.242.1574

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