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steve t
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is the difference From a saddle hip cap to a boston hip cap??
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slateworks
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Boston hip - cut the field slates to meet tight at the hip

Saddle hip - Install cap slates on the hip over top of the field slate

I may be wrong but this is what I always thought these terms meant,at least thats what I have used for selling jobs.
The terms are probably in the SRB or other publications on slate roofing
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steve T
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so the boston hip is a fancy name for a miterd hip??
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TonyEriePA
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

C:\Documents and Settings\amf11\Desktop\Home C:Documents and Settingsamf11DesktopHomeNormandySlate05.JPGNormandySlate05.JPG
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TonyEriePA
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops-
Didn't work that too well
That previous picture is an example of some fine French craftsmanship. You're looking at a ~12x12 single slatehook per slate install over battens method in Normandy, France '05. The rakes and eaves, obviously, are more firmly attached as they contain the remainder of the field
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TonyEriePA
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

C:\Documents and Settings\amf11\Desktop\Home C:Documents and Settingsamf11DesktopHomeNormandySlateDetail.JPGNormandySlateDetail.JPG
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tony, is that slate hooks I see under every slate? And if so, why??? Looks like a new slate roof. And I must say in all my years I've never seen a new slate roof completly hooked. What would be the reason?
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TonyEriePA
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good question. Yes, these were new 2005 roofs on a barn conversion and on a large brand-new expensive norman-style residence. Every slate has one slate hook holding it from below, and three others supporting it on the sides and top from adjacent slates ... and this is on the Atlantic/Channel coast of Normandy near Honfleur where it's often wet and very windy.
Don't know why they do it that way, but its got to be quicker, you don't risk breaking any slate by nailing it too overzealously, replacements are easy, European slate tends not to be punched at the quarry (which minimizes the risk of laterally blown rain moving under a slate to the nail hole of the underlying slate), and tradition has got to be part of the reason too. The edgework is also nice, with the Welsh-style angled butts, and the strap hangers are very heavy galvanized (I actually bought a bunch @~1.50 each - made for heavy bags on the way back to the US though).
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robin
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 01:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

90% of the slate roofs in here (belgium) are done like this.. why is it so strange?

can't manage to get pics inhere :-(
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Anonymous
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not that it's strange, it's just that me (personally) i've never seen one (slate roof) done this way. Also I don't understand the purpose of it! But, every where you go they have their own way of doing things. It's neat to see new ways of doing things.
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slateworks
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

\image\C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Pictures\Dell Image Expert Images\January 20, 2006\slate.jpg - Just trying to load a picture of a small roof I did with chipped & broken slate.Something a little different--see if the image will load.
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robin
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 06:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...not...

tried that also few times.. seems I'm better in slating than pc-ing..
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robin
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 06:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

purpose.. easy.. slates in here are not préholed.. with hooks it's faster and real easy to repair a broken slate
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robin
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 06:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

for the hip we have a different system.. can't explain very well.. but looks better and is with standard size on the hip always wish I'd manage to upload a picture

try this: http://users.pandora.be/sisters/Janmagazijn.htm


got better pics but not on the net
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Joe Jenkins
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slates are hooked rather than nailed in some European countries these days. For one reason, it allows the use of thinner slates, thereby maximizing the profit for the slate manufacturers - the ones who have slate deposits that can be split very thin, that is.

Regarding mitered hips vs. Boston hips in the US, as I understand it, Boston hips have hip slates all the same size and the hip slate may be trimmed decoratively. Mitered hips are just the slate courses run out to the hip. The hip slates on a standard mitered hip are different sizes and not trimmed in any way other than to fit the hip.

Joe Jenkins

PS: I'm in Outer Mongolia at the moment. Not any slate roofs here.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's real easy - IF - you know what you are doing to repair a slate that has been nailed in to also. A SLATE RIPPER, it works every time. I'd be worried - IF - I lived in a heavy wind or snow area about having every single slate hooked. With a nailed in slate roof the replaced (hooked slate) is supported on each side by a nailed in slate and at top and bottom. We will NEVER install two hooked slates next to each other, NEVER. But, that's us and after 5 decades of slate roofing we must be doing it right. But, your way over there must work too or they wouldn't be doing it. So like I said in an earlier post it's neat to see differant ways of doing things.
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robin
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the explanation Joe, it's the decoratively trimmed we mostly use.. never saw it in rest of the world though..
for Anonymous: I understand what u mean.. 2 slates hooked next to each other will feel loose.. but if there is another slatehook in the middle holding the middle upperslate they won't go anywhere.. the system is over 100 years old in here!!! but specially last 30 years used on nearly any roof.. it's more difficult on the us thicker slates to do so though..
-in here most nature slates are from Spain xcept for 10% from Wales.. (more xpensive) thinner slates are harder to quarry and in most cases more expensive.. but it's what clients in here want.. tastes vary;.. you're right, it's neat to see different ways of doing it :-)
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Christopher Paulin
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe,

Do you mean your location literally? We always had our suspicions, figuratively speaking, but now that you're freely admitting to it..

Best,

Christopher Paulin
www.paulinslate.com
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Joe Jenkins
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Greetings from Outer Mongolia. I arrived here on Friday night, February 24th (? I have lost track of the calendar)

and it is now March around the 5th or 6th (Tuesday night). I started out in Ulaanbaatar (UB), the capital, and then

went to Erdenet, a 7 hour drive north west of UB. I have been in Erdenet for 5 nights and just returned tonight to

UB where I can actually make a phone call and get on the internet again. UB is the largest city in Mongolia (1

million) and Erdenet is the 2nd largest (85,000).

To fill you in, I was hired by an international development agency in DC (PADCO - you can look them up on the web)

for a project funded by the Asian Development Bank. The Mongolians have been nomads for centuries, following a

lifestyle based on herding animals and living in felt dwellings (we call them yurts but they call them "gers.") They

have had hard times in recent years with severe weather killing off a lot of their herds and have been moving in

droves to the cities. They set up "ger communities" around the city centers, consisting of either the felt huts or

simple wooden shacks, each household fenced in by a wooden fence into an area called a "hasha." The groups of hashas

are organized into neighborhoods caled "bags" (pronounced bogs). In UB, the ger area population is increasing by

30,000 per year (current ger population is about 120,000). In Erdenet, it is increasing by about 3,000/year (current

ger area population is about 36,000). These areas have little or no facilities, although most do have electricity

and TVs. To make a long story short, there seems to be no solution for the sanitation issue. They all •••• in pit

latrines, which are, to say the least, unpleasant. I have come here to introduce them to humanure toilets and

composting as an alternative. The reception has been awesome.

I started out at the highest levels of government in the capital, UB, giving Powerpoint presentations about the

humanure alternative at the Ministry of Construction and Urban Development. My presentations have been on national

TV and radio in both UB and Erdenet. I'm working with a team of 22 people, 4 Americans, 1 Indian and 1 British. The

rest are Mongolian. They include engineers, architects, etc., and they are working on other issues (urban planning,

roads, water supply, finances, etc.). I have a Mongolian assistant, Augie, a woman, who is helping me with the

humanure part of the project. I have also shown the Powerpoint presentation to ger communities in both UB and

Erdenet. They love the idea of humanure composting and are wanting to start right NOW, so acceptance of the idea has

not been a problem. Furthermore, the government, including the dept. of health and the dept. of agriculture, are

fully supportive. We hope to set up training programs so people can learn how to use this toilet alternative,

including health deptartment oversight, lab analyses of finished compost (2 years from now), etc., etc. Although

this is a vast grassland (Mongolia has the least dense population of any country in the world, as well as the

coldest capital city), they do seem to have compostable cover materials, including wool waste, sawdust and other

materials. They grow a lot of wheat (mostly for vodka) and they make beer here (both are excellent, by the way), so

other "cover materials" should be available.

In any case, the experience so far has been phenomenal. I only have a 4 week contract and will complete the first

leg of that contract (i.e. 2 weeks) on Saturday night when I fly back to the USA at around midnight. I will return

at the beginning of May for the 2nd leg of the contract (another 2 weeks) when I hope to set up a prototype system

in a select ger community involving a dozen households, maybe more.

The main problem is that the acceptance of this idea has been immense and it will be an effort to keep people from

starting thier own humanure toilets en masse. However, I intend to create an instruction manual as well as an

instructional video, both in Mongolian, and then have people undergo a "certification" course before they are

permitted to begin using the humanure toilets. This is just a matter of public health safety. Composting is a new

concept to these people and they need to learn how to do it before we let them loose on it.

In the meantime, we are doing a case study with one woman who has built a humanure toilet and set up a compost bin

in her hasha in Erdenet. In two months I will return there and see how she is doing and hopefully learn a lot. She

has sawdust and we intend to supply her with wool waste fom the local rug factory. In any case, this is an

incredible experiment and I'm optimistic that this can change, for the better, the lives of many Mongolians.

Well that's it in an nut shell. Had dinner with the governor a couple nights ago (we ate "whore hog," which is a

plastic tub full of sheep parts), have gone through numerous bottles of vodka with my team (excellent - made form

wheat grown on the steppes), am enjoying the endless diet of mutton, and can list a number of strange customs and

practices, but don't have time right now. Just wanted to say hello and let you know where I'm at and what I'm doing.

Take care,

Joe

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