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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
Junior Member
Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok - my roofer has been here and gone. All felt bibs have been replaced with 5x9" 16oz. copper. The paper used had been more beefy than 30lb felt, but I am much more happy with the copper. Roofer stated some customers did not like the copper due to the shiney look. I see what he means, however that will fade soon. All in all he was very gentle on the roof and gutters and did a great job. I will post that side-lap photo asap. Cheers all - and have a great holiday.
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Chris (Chris)
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

looks pretty, nice snow guards too
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice to see some positive comments, Thanks. He will swap out the bibs, hopefully in the next few days. I have mixed emotions on this since it will require some extra foot traffic on the roof, and after reading "How To Tell if Your Contractor is a Neanderthal" ( http://www.slateroofcentral.com/neanderthal.htm ) I am concerned. He told me he would "stand on a slate ripper" to avoid putting weight on the roof. I'll need to see that to understand it.
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Old_school (Old_school)
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Username: Old_school

Post Number: 567
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I like randoms for that reason, but I can tell you that I can lay out a roof and catch the layouts with the best of them. Been there and done all of that. You are right though in that it could be caught in the middle of the roof, or the slates could be "stretched" a fraction of an inch on several slates to make up the difference.

I get a kick out of talking to shingle roofers and having them talk about "backing down" shingles around a dormer to find out where they had to start on the opposite side. No lines and no clue! The guy should have used copper bibs; no question, but it looks like he did a fair job from the pictures posted so far. I have seen a lot worse for sure. Let's hold judgment for a bit! Just a thought.
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I appreciate the comments on both sides. I can tell you are all passionate about your craft, and for the sake of the industry/profession you want only quality work done. Attached are some photos, althiugh I still need to get up on a ladder to shoot the low side-lap area. Front Garage 1
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Chris (Chris)
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 72
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

quote: {{Also, if the slates are just close on the sideways exposure at the edge of the roof, it is possible that the roofer did this so that he didn't have a tiny sliver of slate at the very edge. That is perfectly acceptable }}

John, the slates are 18 x10
A good slater will spend plenty of prep time and get the layout figured out so that he does not end up with little slivers. The proper way to land on the edgein this case is with a 10" or 5"
He can add , or take away in the middle to make sure he lands on the right number at the edge.
I put 18x10's on a 27 or 28 ft run.....
I remember i had to take an 1/8 off of 4 or 5 slates in the middle to make it lay out.
I could have done 1/4 but i wanted it to be less noticeable.

If his roofer is too lazy to put copper bibs in for his customer, and then tells him that felt paper is a perfectly good substitute, I can guarantee he did not put any thought into the layout.
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Old_school (Old_school)
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Username: Old_school

Post Number: 562
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A copper bib is a copper bib. If you "kink" them slightly in the middle lengthwise, they will not slide out and if for whatever reason you haven't flushed the nail to the slate beneath it, the slight rise will make it easier to slide into place. I still prefer to use a slate hook, but bibs work just fine.

Also, if the slates are just close on the sideways exposure at the edge of the roof, it is possible that the roofer did this so that he didn't have a tiny sliver of slate at the very edge. That is perfectly acceptable FYI
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Post Number: 9
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Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris your scaring me... will post 1st chance I get.
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Chris (Chris)
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 71
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

some things are just a shame.
joe, post some pictures of the roof, based on his comment to you i am curious to see his workmanship

(Message edited by chris on December 21, 2010)

(Message edited by chris on December 21, 2010)
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok - finally heard from the contractor, who spoke to the roofer... who basically said that tar paper is a preference because it is less likely to slip out, and is more shiney (looks more glaring). He also said that tar/felt paper installed in a seam as a bib will last 50 years... He offered to come back and replace with copper. Sounds like I should have him do this based on your comments below. Also, is there anything special about a copper bid sold as a bib? He may want to custom cut the bibs as opposed to buying them. I see Joe has them here on the site for sale... just wondreing how specialized of an item they are. Thank you.
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Post Number: 6
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Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for that. I'll get up on the roof this weekend to measure that. The slates are 10x18 so I assume there is a 5" sidelap for the majority of the roof. The keys are lined up very stright over the whole roof, drip edge to peak. And no slates are popping up due to over-nailing. However they are a bit textured (thick and thin mix, mostly medium). We used the Vermont Gray/Blank from Greenstone, standard grade I believe. I will try and get some pictures up. This site played a large role in my research, so thank you all for that...
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Chris (Chris)
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 69
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

joe, the rules say 3" minimum sidelap as well.
that is because the holes are usually 1.5 inches in from the sides, so at least you will always have 1.5" of sidelap protection.
so, 3" minimum is the answer
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 5
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Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps. All other items appear to be in order based on the extensive research i've done on this site. 3" headlap, proper flashing, drip edge...
There is an area on the back of the roof where the channels between slates are horizontally close to the channel above. This is at the edge of the roof. Is there a rule for how far apart the vertical channel between to slates must be offset from the row of tiles above and below? Perhaps a picture will help.
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Bud (Bud)
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Username: Bud

Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry to elevate the concern but I am forced to wonder what else was not done correctly...maybe an inspection of the roof would be in order.
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Walter_musson (Walter_musson)
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Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 185
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 06:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Laziness or not having any copper bibs on hand .
I prefer to use slate hooks .
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought so. I wonder if there could be any rational reason this could have been done? Checking with my general contractor now. Grrrr.
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Chris (Chris)
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 68
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yes, very
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Walter_musson (Walter_musson)
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Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 184
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes
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Joecalta3 (Joecalta3)
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Username: Joecalta3

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On my homes new slate roof the roofer user the nail and bib technique to put up the last few slates after removing the scafolding. It appears the "bib" used was felt paper instead of copper. I noticed this because one of them slipped out, which made me look closer with a pair of binoculars. This was done in at least 7 places. Something to be concerned about?

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