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David_large (David_large)
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Username: David_large

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All producers (worldwide) that I am aware of would be drilling, not punching, slates of this thickness and the recessed spalling preferable for installing thinner slates probably doesn't apply here. I'm sure the texture on these Chinese slates compensates for the lack of recess, if properly nailed, and their thickness will prevent them from being broken if the nail head is "slightly" proud of the surface. I would be very careful about trying to claim back charges here , unless your supplier is naive (inexperienced) enough to consider them.

The starter slates are a different issue. Obviously on a 12:12 pitch you want to install at a 3" headlap and the starter slate should be 10" long (up the roof) x 20" or more along the eave, and appropriately drilled as starter slates.

Sounds like somebody (it would be interesting to know who) got seduced by a cheap price from a supplier that doesn't really know "roofing" slate and probably sells floor tile and slabs as their main business!
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Slate_man (Slate_man)
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Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 573
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 05:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alot of the Vermont quarry's, drill 4 hole for the 1"thicher slate too. These bigger slate need or should have 4 nails per slate, because of the weigth!
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Aaaslater (Aaaslater)
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Username: Aaaslater

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 01:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I really appreciate your answers. I certainly have run MY numbers, but under the old rule of "two heads should be better than one," or in this case....5 or 6 giving feedback, I couldn't think of a better place to solicit some opinions. Because I am still negotiating with the supplier (of notable size I might add), it seems prudent to reserve for a later date any disclosure of who it is...though once I have a working agreement with them, I'll happily share that with anyone.

Joe, we are using HOT DIPPED nails if you believe that matters on the rub-through issue from the underlying slate.

I want to extend a special "thank you" specifically to Joe for the wealth of great information he provides through his websites and literature, and thank you all again for your feedback.

Dave
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Joe (Joe)
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Username: Joe

Post Number: 524
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 09:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thick slates are typically drilled and most Chinese slates I have seen of any thickness have been drilled (a good reason to buy domestic slates). The thicker slates tend to be irregular enough that the nail heads rubbing against the overlying slates, especially if the nails are copper, don't seem to be much of a problem.
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Old_school (Old_school)
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Username: Old_school

Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good point Liam!
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Slate_man (Slate_man)
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Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 572
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't most slate 1" thich come drilled! I not 100% on this but, the rules of a typiccal recessed nail hole don't aply! The thicker the slate the more blow out, in the slate after you punch, makeing the slate thinner round where you nail. Which make for a weak point.
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Bud (Bud)
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Username: Bud

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I cannot lay any claim to being a slater for any length of time but I know roofing and I know business and to me the answer you seek is probably staring you in the face. You know your numbers and you know what kind of time it took or will take to make this roof happen so that when you say it's done you will know it's done right.

I would suggest that although this has been a great inconvenience it is still time that you are working and time that you have 'sold'. Therefore it is time that you deserve to be paid for just as if it was part of the job.

I don't believe that you should make concessions for labor dollars unless you are the one who selected the slate that was the problem. The manufacturer, the supplier, the buyer; these are the ones who should shoulder the costs.

It's business and business is done where those with time to sell get paid for the time that they put into the skill that they possess that brings to those who need 'x' done by someone because they can't do it themselves.

Do the math, how much money would you have made working on another job for the same amount of 'extra' time you spend on this one. That is the amount that you bill them for.

You deserve to make a profit on every job that you do.

My opinion, only worth 2 cents.
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 416
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who was the supplier? What have they offered you? How much time are you getting into it?

Heck, tell them you want $40 or $50.00 a square for your troubles. That is just stupid on the part of the Chinese when they prepped them. At an inch thick, they almost have to be drilled.

$70.00 an hour for your time!
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Aaaslater (Aaaslater)
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Username: Aaaslater

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have just started a job consisting of approx. 250 sq. of chinese slate...3 color & 3 size mix, 1/2" to 1" varied thickness that arrived with 95% of the slate punched and/or drilled from the wrong side.

As a result, for those of you who have been slaters for much of your lives, you can imagine the extra time and cost associated with us having to use drills & masonary bits to create the normally pre-punched recessed nail head area in each slate. Slate height is 16" on all, and widths vary using 10", 12", and 15" material.

I certainly have been running my own figures and numbers for what I believe should be the backcharge to the slate company for not preparing the slate properly before shipping, but I would be highly interested in getting some feedback from not only Joe, but any of you other experts in the marketplace as to what you would expect to be a fair and compensatory bill to submit for our lost time, extra labor and overhead for having to do their job.

Also, the slate company committed what I believe, to be a no-no by calling regular field slate "starters" and shipping us 16" x 20" field slate with the nail hole pattern set up for reg. field slate. To maintain the appropriate sidelap/overlap and still accomodate our 3-size configuration just on the starter row alone has been a time-consuming ball-buster. I want to make sure I am fair, but also accurate in my back charges.

I would really appreciate some reliable, professional opinions from fellow slaters on the matter. The roof is 12/12 pitch, and of course, we are using a lift for the 25' 2-story staging, so the slow down has also incurred extra charges for the lift.

Thanks to all in advance

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