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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Plaughlin1, now I get it. That is the same flat lock joint that the remaining tin has. Although none have been cleated except for maybe the top which I can't see until I get my slate puller and remove those slates. Was wondering if it's better to let the copper float and only cleat the top and fold over at the drip edge with a flat lock seam?

It looks as though 30" is correct height of copper that is needed to go up the roof. Joe, when you say 30" stock, is that I size that you sell? I've been unable to locate a standard size of 30" all have been 36" as the closest dimension. All in all I will need 112' x30" total. Plus extra for valleys and flashing. Thanks.
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Plaughlin1 (Plaughlin1)
Intermediate Member
Username: Plaughlin1

Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

jim, if i was doing the project i would make a little V shaped notch in the 3/4" leg that you fold,do Not notch the gutter liner itself.
It wouldn't hurt anything to put down rosin down, that was if there is some tar in the old framing it wont wick into the solder joint.
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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for your post. I can understand the lap joint with the "V" gutter. The flat lock joint sounds great, but the one thing that confuses me is the slight bend that I have in mine where it creates the channel for my gutter. In other words do I make the flat lock bend on my brake for the left and right of the panel. Then cut the lock joint at the bend so that it will bend into the V shape. Perhaps I don't have to cut it at all forgive my ignorance. Like the idea of the cleats. Hope I'm making sense.

Would you use rosin paper under this copper? I originally had nothing.

My brother-in law has a 8' brake he's going to give me for this project, so I'll get lots of practice in the coming weeks. I'll practice with some aluminum that I have 1st.

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Plaughlin1 (Plaughlin1)
Intermediate Member
Username: Plaughlin1

Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim, if you are asking about the gutter joints that run perpendicular to the gutter i would recomend a 3/4" flat lock joint or a 2" lap joint.
if you do the lap joint you will need to rivet the joint around every 2" and stagger the rivets.
If you go with the 3/4" flat lock joint make sure that you hammer the seam down tighly with a mallet or a dead blow hammer.
this will make it much easier for the solder to wick into the joint and get good solder flow.
attached is a typ drawing of a flat lock joint.
i would HIGHLY reccomend you try out a few sample seams before you get up on the roof and do the real joint on a full section.
Hope all goes well.
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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 03:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks all.
Joe- that sounds like a good size for me. I'm sure with practice I can get those joints done correctly. Regarding that, did you use a standard double lock standing seam for that V shape? If so, I'm curious as to what happens at the bend at the bottom of the V when it's locked.

I may be working on this in the fall/winter so I was thinking I would use the EZ POT PRO. If you think I should use something else please let me know.

Once I price the slate, and get the ok from the wife, I'll get one of the tool sets (STORTZ 4 PIECE WITH FREE BOOK) since the book is then free. Need to read that book.

Thanks
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Joe (Joe)
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Username: Joe

Post Number: 427
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm in Sweden at the moment, otherwise I could post some photos of a similar job we did in PA. We used 30" stock, 20 ounce copper, 4' sections (took a 4' brake to the job site), and soldered the sections with an American Beauty 300 watt iron.

Both those photos are slate, by the way (no asbestos).
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 211
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim, I hate to discourage anyone from doing anything. The proper tools and equipment make the job safer and easier though. Sometimes when we "make do" we are not as safe as we should be and that is when people get hurt. Be careful!
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Walter_musson (Walter_musson)
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 167
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim ,
Yes the gutter sheet overhangs the drip edge by 3/4" and then is locked onto the drip with sheet metal tongs .
I wasn't trying to discourage you from doing it , just pointing up a concern is all.
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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Walter and Old school. I appreciate your opinions. The 2nd pic down (Middle pic) is from slateroofcentral. It was the closest pic of what is on the tin that is on the gutter now since it was done in short sections. Perhaps I should not have used it. The soffit was rebuilt and ready for a roof. I could pay someone to put on epdm rubber on that built in with a 30 yr roof or I learn to do copper and slate. I may not end up jumping in the pool with alligators just yet, if ever, but for some reason I really want to.I've been looking at other houses and I don't see too many of these v shaped built ins around here. Anyone know the exact name of the gutter? Just curious. Walter you're right about the seams, I'll just have to figure out how I deal with sheets 8 ft. long. Walter the bottom pic has a drip edge. Is that the type I should get? I was trying to figure out how the front of the panel connects to the drip edge, so I drew out an image of what I assume it to be. Thanks.
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Walter_musson (Walter_musson)
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 166
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Old School ,
Look at the blog pictures . It is real slate thats worn out.
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 210
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim, the "slates" on your roof, at least in the first picture are the old asbestos slates. They are very thin and very brittle. You are going to have to get the new flashing up beneath them to make it work correctly and the copper is going to have to be several inches beneath the bottom of the second row. It could be tough and almost impossible to solder up there.

The second picture you posted was of a regular slate roof with standing seam panels along the bottom. That is entirely different than the gutters you are talking about. It also apears that you have some wood to repair on your home before you ever start to fix the gutters.

It appears to me that you are jumping right into the 30' deep end of the pool with alligators swimming in it as a "starter" project. Good luck!
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Walter_musson (Walter_musson)
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 165
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim ,
The shorter the sheets are the more seams and soldering you'll be faced with .
Since you're new to this it might not be wise to double the chances for solder and joint failure , but thats just my opinion .
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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Link below will take you directly to the pic

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2eZ9LkqlDc8/SoV5Qdr5L2I/AAAAAAAAADo/reVLBwcIwVo/s1600- h/Jims_Copper_BuiltIn.jpg
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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
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Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi. I'm a slate novice who would like to replace the slate on my house and also the copper. Without asking a billion questions 1st. I'll just take baby steps. I don't own any tools (yet) so I've attached a pic of how I think the built in should be done after reading for weeks now on slate and copper from this site and others. My 1st intention was to get 8' copper sheets to do this but I'd much rather do it in smaller widths since I'm just doing it myself. Below is a link to my blog, but don't bother reading the posts since I'm in learnin' mode still. I tried uploading the pic but had some problems. Please view from my site below just for now. Thanks for your help.

http://foursquarerestoration.blogspot.com/

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