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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 149
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe, I took it apart and fixed it today and took plenty of pictures. I will put it all together and explain it all in Kentucky! It should be interesting. We have to go back tomorrow and work on the back side of the roof, but I believe that is something else entirely.

The framing on the rounded valley looked to be in three pieces, with a copper flashing between each course. They also smeared it with a bunch of plastic roofing cement as they went along so I tried very hard not to tear into too much of it. If you started, the whole thing was coming off. I do believe I was able to fix it though, and I only used 10 gallons of roof cement!!!! Not!!

When you are finished and you can hardly tell that you have been on a roof, I consider that sucess. You can let me know when I make my presentation.
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 133
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They had a leak at the bottom of the cooper roof when the ice was really thick. I think it is coming in at the siding, but I will have to take it apart and see that too. It looks like it was done at a different time that the other valleys which are more uniform.
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Slate_man (Slate_man)
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 405
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The valley with the heat tape or ligthing protection, above the copper roof looks werid to me. Be nice to see the frameing!
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 132
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 06:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe, I have to take apart the bottom of one of them for sure and I will take pictures. They had leakage this past winter due to ice buildup, that I have to fix. Should be interesting. There are two different houses pictured there, both done about the same time; probably by the same roofer. They are about a mile apart here in town.
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Joe (Joe)
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 395
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice roof John. Is there flashing under the slates in those rounded valleys? If you do any repairs on them, can you take photos?
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 131
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have an account on picasa and I am trying to post a couple of pics of these jobs that I am working on now. I hope this works.
http://picasaweb.google.com/crookston.john4/Desktop?authkey=Gv1sRgCNaK64ib87qKfQ #
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I got up on the roof today and really looked it over. Someone has been on it and put a lot of roofing cement on the slates. A lot of crumby repairs to be sure but only the two leaks. We will be fixing it up and taking care of the wrost of the repairs. I will take ssome pictures and post them. Very interesting roof!
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK:I will try again!

I went back to the roof with my son yesterday and got inside the building to see everything from beneath. They had horrible ice this winter, but only two leaks. One I am sure was leaking at the joint of the wood shake siding and copper/slate area. I will take it apart and see what we can do. The area I was talking about originally had a good leak, but it was coming from one area and I believe I can take it apart and add some Ice and Water Shield to keep the water out of the building when the ice does build up. Boy, did it ever this winter!

This is a very cut up building with lots of different levels, small window wells built into the roof and tons of differnt attic spaces that can't be accessed. I may be able to add some insulation to the area when I take it apart. I would love to be able to vent it, but that is not going to happen with this one.

Thick multi colored random staggered slate with rounded valleys. At the bottoms it is all about the same exposure but about 2/3 of the way up the roof they started to graduate it to very small slates. If I can figure out how to post some pictures I think it would be an interesting one for all of you to see.

Joe, it is good to see that you also take advantage of some of the newer inventions we have had in the last 50 years besides the tried and true "slate with no underlayment" I think with all of the heat we are pouring into these structures now-a-days Ice and water along the eaves and on occasion a heat cable make a lot of sense. Bravo!!
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 165
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do that all the time!
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Joe (Joe)
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 367
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe you didn't hit the "Post this Message" button after reviewing it.
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I posted something on this yesterday and I don't see it showing up. What's up?
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Joe (Joe)
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 362
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We had a terrible winter with ice damming this year here in western PA, and apparently in a lot of other areas as well. A customer called me yesterday and told me the heat cable we had installed on his eaves a year or two ago was insufficient to keep the ice melted, which was very disappointing as I had hoped that heat tape would be a practical solution. The ice was 12" thick on many roofs. My own roof leaked where it had never leaked before, essentially because it was under water due to a massive ice dam. It was an act of nature, like a hurricane or flood - there was nothing we could do until the ice melted off. Now we have scores of calls about roof damage, gutters torn off, even one roof that collapsed. A nasty year.

There is one glimmer of hope however. I have a section of roof where a steep slope (10:12) drains onto a shallow slope (4:12) on my own house. Everything I build is experimental. I have had ice damming on a section of the eaves on the lower slope roof section twice in the past to the extent that I had leakage. Last year, as a temporary solution, I slid 6" wide bibs under each slate joint until the bib hit a slate nail. Then I marked it and cut off the bottom so it would be invisible. That section of the roof did not leak this year, despite the worse ice damming conditions I have ever seen. I may have stumbled onto something. I have tried this bib flashing technique on other problem ice dam areas of customers roofs and it has worked there as well.

Otherwise, the only apparently effective solution is to remove the slates and install a snow apron along the eaves.
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 159
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True, you can only go so far with headlap. Go with the snow flashing at the bottom.
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Tim_dittmar (Tim_dittmar)
Advanced Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 47
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kurtis- I think one should be careful with increasing the headlap in this "sweep" setting; increasing the headlap will retrograde the pitch(though not much with a good slope) and in this really minimal pitch scenario that has problems, it may be no overall solution just by itself. To show folks how headlap performs, I often use some thin to medium books arranged like shingles but flat on a table to help with visualization...
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Braymer (Braymer)
Senior Member
Username: Braymer

Post Number: 75
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hows their insulation ?, especially out toward the eaves.
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Slate_man (Slate_man)
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 363
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 05:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would like to see a picture, if you got one. Its not that I don't understand what you are saying, I just want to see the rounded valley. Are they loosing heat.
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Kwhord (Kwhord)
Senior Member
Username: Kwhord

Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, I'm guessing the pitch at the bottom of the roof flattens out or gets very low with the sweep? If so I think some snow flashing or some kind of sheet metal would be in order until the pitch changes to 4 or 5 in 12. You could also increase the headlap on the lower courses if you didn't want to change the look of the roof.
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am looking at a repair on a home we have worked on before here in town. A graduated slate roof with plenty of character. The valleys are rounded and at the bottom on one side they had a terrible amount of ice with backup and leakage this past winter. I am thinking of taking off the first 4-5 rows and installing a flat seam copper roof to handle the water and then using the slavaged slates to repair areas on the rest of the roof. The bottom of the roof also curves and flattens so I am working with two compound curves at the same time. Any suggestions? Thanks Old School...John R. Crookston

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