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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can someone tell me approximately how much a square of unfading red slate costs? Also what is the life expectency of unfading red slate?
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also can someone verify how to know for sure that my roof is unfading red?
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Walter Musson
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you contemplating removal of an unfading red slate roof?By the sound of your question you have a roof that you suspect might be unfading red and need to figure out what salvage price per square might be.
I just priced out 7x12 unfading from two Vermont quarries and was quoted $950.00 and $1050.00.I suspect that larger sizes would be slightly higher.Obviously salvage wouldn't sell that high .
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Rocco
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes I am contemplating removal due to the extremely high prices of slate and copper work in my area. I would say that I need about 20% of the slates replaced and all new copper work(2 dormers, 2 chimneys, 1 large valley, etc(Plus I have a couple of flat roofs tied into the slate which drives repair costs up further). I have plenty of excellent slates in very good condition. In fact when I look at my slate and look at others in the county, my roof seems to be in excellent shape for the most part. However as you know unfading red is extremley expensive to purchase. I would say I would have at least 12 - 14 good squares slate. The size is approximately 10" W X 24" H. It would really be a shame to replace this roof, it is perfect for this house.
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admin
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 09:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can identify slate at http://www.jenkinsslate.com/identify.html

Unfading red slate is called NY red slate on this web page.

It is unlikely that you can replace the roof for less money than you can restore it. What is your location? Have you received proposals for restoration work from several contractors?
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Rocco
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well judging from that page, it definitely appears to be unfading red. I just heard that some people mistake unfading red for other colors that have been oxodized over the years. The color runs through the slate so I guess it is NY red. Quite charming with large Brownstone blocks.

"It is unlikely that you can replace the roof for less money than you can restore it."

Well in Northen NJ, the price for everything in terms of construction is astronomical, especially slate restoration.

I have received a handful of quotes and the prices vary a lot. All are at least the same price as reshingling the entire house with something like OC Berkshire or CT Grand Manor. This includes the same copper work as well.

I have called several slate companies(mentioned on this board) and the price for a square of NY Red in my size my seems to be about $1700 - $2600(10" X 24") a square and this does not include shipping in some cases. If you consider that I need an absolute minimum of 1 - 2 squares, we are talking at least $3000 for the shingles alone. That is more then what 20 Sqaures of the top dimensional composite shingles cost. The going rate for slate repair is $25 per slate in my area. This does not include the slate. Add to this I need a copper ridge(since the roof caps have been tared), which is about $2500. I have to have the slate power washed(tons of algae and moss) by someone who knows how to deal with slate, which is about another $1500. It all adds up very fast with little to no guarantees. The best price I have found from a reputable company has been about $14K for all of this(which includes ripping off 2 flat roofs and one asphalt shingle roof(many many layers) and replacing them accordingly.

Future costs are also a concern as painting and facia board replacements(Tudor) will all cost at least triple the normal cost due to the fact that one should not walk on the roof.

So as you can see, it costs at minimum the same price as entire reshingle job. If you factor in that I can perhaps sell at least 8 squares of NY Red(large slate). It is considerably cheaper to reshingle no matter how you break it down. I for the life of me would love to keep my beautiful roof as is, but it just may not be possible in my neck of the woods. Just because you give me a Rolls Royce, does not mean I can afford the insurance:) If anyone wants to chime in with suggestions, etc. please do! Thanks for this board, a truly great resource. I have learned a lot about slate roofs.
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Walter Musson
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about using the side opposite the street as a source of replacement slates and then use the Grand Manor shingles on that area.You might be able to use the salvage from there to accomplish all your repair needs,even though the copper work will still be required and quite pricey.
This would enable the most visible side to retain the magnificent roof that unfading red provides,and give you some break in the total cost of the job.
Seems like the people who carefully remove the slates in the re-roofing scenario would be apt to charge more for the labor involved since you would want to retain the salvage.Have you gotten quotes for the job of re-shingling with the roofer keeping the salvage and giving you a credit for the slate if that is the way this work evolves?
With the profusion of snorkel lifts these days prices for painting etc. shouldn't be too much more than normal for future work so I wouldn't re-shingle the roof with that as a huge concern,even though it has some bearing on the decision.
When do you feel it necessary to begin this work?
If it were in Feb. and March I might be willing to also price your work.My work load here in Me. will be more managable then.
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Rocco
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I have leaks in two of the flashing areas. It was bad the other day. Even so, the roofer I settled on for now would not be able to begin work to at least mid January, so waiting to Feb. would not be the biggest of deals. The roofer is trying to find a buyer for the slates, to see what we could get. He suggested that this would not be a problem to sell. He would arrange for the slates to be removed during the job and give me a credit towards the work being done. He told me usually customers don't ask so they usually take the slates to sell. He is fairly upfront with me because he knows I am aware of the value of them.

Even without buying actual slate the pricing is obviously very high. Imean the copper work alone is over 5K. So we are still very close close to the price of a reshingle even without buying anymore slate. The roofers prices for copper seem fair enough compared to some of the quotes I have received. However, the pricing for slate repair seems kind of high considering no slate would be provided.
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Walter Musson
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You would wind up with an elegant street side this way ,the unfading red is a thing of beauty.
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admin
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you realize that you can order slates directly from the quarry at quarry prices? You don't have to buy through your roofing contractor. If you think you have to pay $1700-$2600 for a square of red slate you're deceiving yourself. Also, NY red slate is arguably one of the best slates in the world. A restored NY red slate roof will outlast any asphalt shingle you can replace it with, possibly by many decades. If the dollars are comparable (asphalt vs restored slate), considering how much longer the red slates can last, it seems like a waste of money to lose the slate roof and put a disposable roof on instead.

Maybe contact Barry Smith or Smith Slate Roof Restoration. He is involved in a large restoration job with red slate including a lot of flashing work (built-in gutters, etc.) and he may have some insight into this. 814-438-2717.

Joe Jenkins
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Rocco
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Joe,
The slate prices were quoted from NE Slate Co, VT Slate Co and Hilltop Slate, (all well known I beleive) not my roofer. I will give Barry a call. I spoke to him briefly in the past. I wished you lived here Joe:) Thanks.
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slateworks
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 07:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"It is unlikley that you can replace the roof for less money than you can restore it".Somtimes dollars and cents are a factor in the Homeowners decision to save or replace their Slate or Tile roof,All situations are different,One roof may need a few slate repaired-Chimney and valley flashings replaced ect.and the roof will be good to go -Others as Rocco have a choice to make-When the cost of restoration exceeds the cost of replacement,We have priced many jobs where the latter is the case,although we try to save the slate or tile-plus once restoration is complete their will be other repairs and roof inspections needed over the next 40 years,also some people truly do not have the money to maintain hard roofs especially when major restoration is needed.We are truly fortunate that many people do spend the money to install and restore these roofs-just 20 years ago things were not so good,Even though we want all slate and tile roofs to be saved that are worth saving,We must also be sensitive to owners finances.Yes slate roofs especially S1's are a better investment than other roofs over the life span of the roof.So Rocco you can be creative as Walter has suggested,we have done this on a few roofs,also you may be able to salvage some slate from your flat roof areas if they tie into the slate you could eliminate 2-3 rows and extend tour flat roofing material further up the roof,especially if these areas are on back of the house,if you have dormers on the house you could remove the slate and install a standing seam metal roof ect..or you could replace 2 sq.of slate on the back of your house with 2sq. of some other less expensive slate?Also try to find salvage to buy direct,your size is a odd one 24" x 10",their are many other small quarries and salvaged slate dealers in the states-check the ones on this web site ,plus other web sites,- Durable slate in Columbus,ohio-Reniassance Rfg. in illinois,The Tile man-North Carolina,Doug Cochran of Reclaimed slate roofs in delaware ect..Barry Smith(as joe suggested) has some red slate,plus may be able to do your work.Good luck time to go to work, Ron
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admin
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can find sources of used slate at http://www.jenkinsslate.com/usedslate.htm

Double check the size. 10x24 is unlikely.

I actually have about 40 squares of salvaged red slate, all graduated and varying in thickness (no standard sizes).

Joe
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Stephen Taran Jr
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

how about Vermont recycled slate @usedslate.com???
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slateworks
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are listed on The main page is why I did not mention your company-Stephen I came across 10 square here locally at a price that was less than 1/2 from a contractor who had buried it in his warehouse.Have given several local guys your name for salvaged slate-work is about to slow down here,I am sure they will call in the spring as will I ,Thanks for your info and samples. Ron 724-316-7702
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Rocco
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just measured the slate. It is 10" W X 20" H and between 1/8th and 1/4th thick. Is this an uncommon size?
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slateworks
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No,It is a standard size and should be a little easier to find..Why do you need so many slate for your restoration work?Are the slate missing-broken ? Or are you allowing for slate that made need replaced when your flashings are replaced?Would be a shame to have that slate removed. Do you have to do all your repairs at one time or could you spread it out over a couple of years?
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Jim K
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a comment for Rocco from a guy that loves slate. Think about the net decrease in value of your home by losing the slate. This may be an intagible cost right now (or at any other time), but it should be considered. Your house with the original, restored and beautiful red slate roof will almost certainly be worth more than the same house with a new shingle roof. Perhaps I am totally wrong, but I know that I would value the house higher with the red slate.

Something to consider. I hope you keep your red.

Jim Korczak
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Rocco
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For Jim,

I owwn one of two houses with Slate left on the roof in my immediate area. It has no bearing on my home value in my area. The average home buyer would probably be more impressed with a new roof:)

For Slateworks:

Well their are a bunch of slates that have tar on them, some are missing, some are cracked, etc. They quickly add up. one slater said 25 should do, but I have gone over the roof carefully and the number is more like 50 - 60 need to be replaced(There are at least 13 with tar, also there is about 10 gray slate tiles in a patched area). Add to that; some slates will break during repair work. So as you can see at least a square of slate is needed. Plus it is good to have some extra:)

The problem I have is that my roof is leaking where the flashing has failed, so work must begin soon. I will not make a hasty decision and am trying keep what I have.

What is the going rate to replace a slate? $25 per slate(with no slate supplied) seems a bit high to me, am I wrong?
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Rocco
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also money is not really the whole issue here. I just have a hard time believing the price is the same for restoration and reshingleing with a high quality shingle. Remeber, I not have only have myself to convince, I have my wife to convince:)
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admin
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are 169 10x20 slates per square. If you only need 60, that is only .36 squares. I have no doubt that you can find that salvaged (or cannibalize it from an unseen section of your existing roof). Even if bought new at $1200/square, that only comes to $432.00. Whether you repace your roof shingles or not, you still have to replace your flashings. If you keep the slate, you can install copper or stainless steel flashings. If you replace with asphalt, it is unlikely that you will get a high quality flashing (there is no reason to install flashings that will outlast the shingles). The restoration route is almost certainly a better deal for your money, considering the potential remaining life of the slate.

Joe Jenkins
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Rocco
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the numbers Joe. I will look to see where I can find salvaged slate in my size.
Can you please answer this:

What is the going rate to replace a slate(I know it depends on other factors but generally speaking)? $25 per slate(with no slate supplied) seems a bit high to me, am I wrong?
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Rocco
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be preferrable to use salvaged slate as opposed to new slate so that the clor mateches better?
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Walter Musson
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rocco,
Yes that sounds high to me too if you're talking a sizeable number of slates.If you're only talking 10 to 12 then the contractor must cover the cost of getting there ,set up,etc. so then 25 doesn't sound too bad.
Yes salvage is preferable for color match as well as easier on the pocket book.
If you have to have new then you could remove some from the rear,replace with the new ones,then use those from the back on front,but not if you're paying 25 each time.
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Rocco
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Walter. I guess I will see what happens this week as to what I will do. I got a good price on the slate from a member of this board.

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