Snow Guards, Snow Fence, or What? Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Slate Roof Central Message Board » Slate Roofs » Snow Guards, Snow Fence, or What? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 106
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 04:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene, the nail hole in the slate and the one in the roof deck are covered by the slate on top.
I've installed plenty like the method shown and never had a call back.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gene Spivak
New member
Username: Listove

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are going with the Berger 95's and installing as Walter suggests. When you use the ripper to take out the slates, you are potentially left with a hole in the deck under the slate that remains above. Is there any danger of leakage from this? Should that slate that remains above come off, you will have a slate on a hanger with its hole that lines up with the hole on the roof where the nail was removed, seemingly a leak prone situation. Is there anything that is done to help prevent this problem?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 100
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene,
I realized those pictures uploaded out of order so heres the corrected version.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq1iY

To install a guard in the body of the roof I remove 3 slates on the diagonal.
The lowest one is cut on the right side for the guard recess, hung on a hook and one right hand nail. The guard is nailed in using all four holes , angling the nails to help resist pull out.
The second slate is nailed with double right side nails and the third is simply hooked in place.
I think from the ground the few hooks required are hardly visible and far from being obtrusive.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 99
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene,
Heres another recent install.
I'll be back later to explain my techniques more fully.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq1gQ
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 322
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The primary problem with snow guard installations is that too few of them are used. Rarely do only two rows provide enough holding power. Three or four rows is more appropriate, even more, depending on the size of the roof.

Gene, the snow guards in your photo look like Berger Brothers SGBR95 snow guards (http://josephjenkins.com/store/product.php?productid=16266&cat=308&page=1).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Senior Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 98
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene,
I'll put up another album later today of a recent install that shows more details of the process of installing guards in an older roof -- not retrofits. Don't use those .
It's not that difficult to install roof secured guards using copper hooks as needed and they will last for a long , long time.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tim Dittmar
Member
Username: Tim_dittmar

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to whom it may concern- the screen layout on this discussion is such that I can't read it all- only the left hand side- anyway, snowguards on a slate nail(retro-fitted style?) do not work very well- the snowguard acts like a slate ripper and tears nails and slates out of the roof when put under gross load- think someone has said already something about this but wanted to be sure- much better to remove a slate or two and even to nail/screw the snowguard to a rafter- flexible snowguards bend/heave up under load and break the slates covering them- forged are best? consider augmenting the work with backup/redundant flashing/s...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gene Spivak
New member
Username: Listove

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are finally addressing this problem. There is consensus to add another 2 rows at the height where the second story ceiling height is (about 8 feet above the first two rows), add a row up each side of the valley but outside of the valley flashing, and add guards on the dormers to prevent sliding snow from getting into the valley. The existing guards are a close match to the Berger #95's (not actually Bergers), but you can not get the 95's from Berger as a retrofit.

Installation options are 1. Get a Berger retrofit with a different profile and deal with two different types of guards on the same roof (not happy with this) 2.Take out slates, install Berger 95's to the roof deck, and replace slates but that will imply many slate hooks (Will they last and will they be very visible) 3. Do the same and use the nail and bib method to secure the slates after the snow guards are in place (how long lasting is this method? Is the bib flashing held in place by silicone?) 4. Buy the 95's and find someone to cut the diagonal cut-outs on the strap so they can be use as a retrofit and hook on the existing nails

Any thoughts on the intallation methods?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gene Spivak
New member
Username: Listove

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the feedback and thank you, Walter, for the photos. The snow guards I have are actually from Sagi Bros. If they don't make a retro fit of the same kind, I guess we'll pull a few rows of slate nod add another row of guards and try to add some more in the valley, unless the roofer has a compelling argument regarding the pigtails. I guess the top row of replacements end up in slate hooks which I am assuming is OK for the long term. I do like the suggestion of a diagonal notch and hanging them on the nail if we go with the pigtails. I'll follow up here when I have that discussion.

We did get the shank extensions and tried lowering the half round gutters, but it looked silly due to the large roof pitch and the amount they had to be lowered, so we put the gutters back to where they are. It seems we will have to use the extensions and re-lower the gutters, and we will have to find a way to add the fascia for aesthetic purposes, not to actually hang the gutters.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Intermediate Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 04:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene,
i looked at your profile and found no e mail address so I put the link here.
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq0d4&notag=1
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

slateworks roofing
New member
Username: Slate

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Walter is right-they are good looking snow gaurds and would be the way to go ,remove the slate and install directly to roof, you just do not have enough of them,,have seen retro fits pull the slates out of place ect...just seemed like you were looking for a way to help solve the problem without removing the slate and installing more of the same snow guards..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Walter Musson
Intermediate Member
Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 33
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That pigtail solution is not the answer.
The guards in place look like Sieger Model C units. Add a third row of these and put a few closer to the valley on the two bottom courses.Remove the slates and instaa directly to the deck. Don't put extra weight and strain on the slates.
I'll send you a Shutterfly album in the morning showing a proper install
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

slateworks roofing
New member
Username: Slate

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The pigtail solution may work? Think I would cut a diagonal notch and hook them on the nails holding the slate..what you have might work,try to install a few and see what happens....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

slateworks roofing
New member
Username: Slate

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gene you could purchase the retro-fit snow guards joe has for sale,they slide under the slate & hook onto the nails holding the slate,install them up the valley and even above the other 2 rows you have on ,they have a larger surface area so you may not need as many..also the half round gutter can be lowered without adding a fascia board Berger bros. has shank extensions that could be installed or you can purchase the whole shank & circle combo style that would work for your situation.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gene Spivak
New member
Username: Listove

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is the proposed "pigtail" solution. Anyone ever used something like this before?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gene Spivak
New member
Username: Listove

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Snow and ice travel down this valley and land on the steps to the front door. The snow guards installed do nothing.

I am looking for a solution to prevent the snow from coming down in large pieces. Solutions suggested are a snow fence, but it is industrial looking, or hundreds of some type of "pigtails" that are hung on the slates that will keep the pieces of ice from becoming too large. There is also concern that installing the snow fence by bolting through the roof in the valley will compromise the copper flashing in the valley and lead to leaks. The gutter, which is not installed below the roof pitch (I know, it should be) gets ripped off. Dropping the gutter will require a large fascia behind it due to the roof pitch which won't be very attractive. The roof pitch facing the front is 12Horiz-10Vert and the pitch on the left of the front door is 12Horiz-17Vert. The roof to the left of the front door faces north and rarely gets any sun.
Any suggestions?

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration