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Jay Innomid
New member
Username: Innomid

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I want to 'ditto' Jeff's questions. It seems to me they are highly relevant in the age of 'green' building- this topic and questions are not as I read them directed 'against' traditional slate installation, but have to do with the compatibility of and interaction between the traditional roof cover materials methods and the modern insulation materials and techniques. Won't someone take this up, please??
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Jeff Maurin
New member
Username: Weekendslater

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are spraying the Icyene (an expanding, open-cell polyurethane foam) directly to the underside of the decking (it sounds like this is what you are doing - a cathedral ceiling situation, or you have brought the attic area inside the building's thermal envelope), you should not have a problem - there will not be a cold surface for the warm house air to condense on.

I just re-slated my roof and had Icyene sprayed in. My concern was that should there be a leak, it would keep the framing and decking wet - this was not the case. We had a leak on the flat part of the roof before the plasters arrived and water dripped right through (if more slowly) the foam, being an open-cell foam.

To the question about even application of the foam, the foam is typically sprayed to fill the stud/joist cavity and then sawn flush, ensuring a consistent thickness.

-Jeff
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Michael Schojer
New member
Username: Dachdecker

Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My posting before. I mean insulation not installation. Darn spell checker.
Sorry about my english, not my first language.
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Michael Schojer
New member
Username: Dachdecker

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it is sprayed on, how do they make sure it is equally applied? The thickness of installation, average outside and inside temperatures and inside and outside humidity have to be calculated to determine the thickness of installation. Than a vapor barrier has to be installed on the inside of installation, the vapor due point has to be in the first third of the installation. The best than is to install a permeable underlayment. That all has to be calculated. A good contact to go to is www.cosella-dorken.com
I have worked with doerken synthetic underlayments since 78, they have alone 10 different types of roof underlayments for specific needs including 5 different vapor barriers.
Titanium is not vapor permeable and should only be installed on ventilated roofs.
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Thomas Massie
Intermediate Member
Username: Thomas

Post Number: 37
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is my opinion that the radiant barrier on the underside of your decking will do nothing to lower your air conditioning costs if the Icyene insulation is applied directly to it with no air gap. The consensus is that radiant barriers are only effective when used in conjunction with an air gap. (for instance, google "air gap radiant barrier") When two solid materials are touching each other, heat transfer occurs primarily via "conduction," not radiation. Maybe your architect is asking you to pay for something you do not need.

-Thomas
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gaslate
New member
Username: Gaslate

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is a brand of super efficient expanding foam insulation that is blown between the rafters and adheres directly to the roof deck. Thus, no ventilation at all for the roof. No venting at all for the house except through the HVAC system. In addition, I am now more confortable with the specified decking because I found out it contains a radiant shield on the inside of the decking that should lower our air conditioning cost by 20%. However, I would be interested in how thick you think it should be - 5/8 is currently specified for the decking. Lastly, the current specs call for a Titanium underlayment (Titanium is a brand name for some kind of super duper barrier). Anyone ever used that? It can stay on the roof by itself up to six months before the slate is installed according to our architect.
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 158
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It doesn't sound like your architect is very easy to work with if he won't allow you to use the roof decking material that you desire. Who owns the building, you or him? I would find it very annoying.

It would be helpful if you could tell us what Icynene is.
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gaslate
New member
Username: Gaslate

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are getting ready to add a second story to our house and our architect has specified a slate roof on plywood decking (I have already asked for a real deck instead of plywood, and he does not want to change it). In addition, he has specified that our house will have a new HVAC system and Icynene insulation, which is supposed to be very efficient. This new type of insulation will apparently completely change the way our house is ventilated. In particular, with the Icyene insulation, our new HVAC system will become a closed system, with new air coming from the outside via the HVAC (as opposed to rafter ventilation). My internet research thus far indicates that all slate roofs need ventilation in order to equalize the temperature between the outside and inside of the roof suface. I have also heard that some slate roofs have started to have moisture problems when modern renovations add insulation between the rafters or add interior atic finishes. Obviously, having a ventilated roof is not compatible with a closed HVAC/Icynene insulation system. Is a slate roof compatible with Icynene? Have any of you witnessed any problems with slate roofs due to the installation of other types of blown insulation? My architect does not really understand what I am concerned about, but I intend to stay in the house for a long time, and don't want to risk a problem roof. By the way, for what it's worth, I don't think you can remove the Icynene once it is installed. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide on this.

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