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Jon Kranes
Posted on Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recently purchased an 1890 home near Boston with a slate roof. I need to replace the gutters that have all torn off from snow slides on the 12/12 pitch roof, but obviously don't want the same thing to happen to the new gutters. I have received much contradictory advice that always seems to depend on what people have to sell me. Should I install snow guards to prevent the snow slides, or is there a risk that snow guards could cause roof failure from increased snow load (right now the snow slides off before it has a chance to accumulate more than a few inches). If I don't use snow guards, what's the strongest way to attach gutters? Can I use fascia brackets or do I need to remove slates for roof hangers? Can I use aluminum or will runoff from the copper valleys cause it to corrode? Do I need a copper drip edge under the last row of slates? Any insight would be appreciated.
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Walter Musson
Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the snow slides are over means of entering and leaving the building,then by all means,snow guards would be beneficial both for the gutter problems and safety concerns.It's doubtful that the snow weight could exceed the structures limits,but if you felt uncomfortable with the accumulations you could have a skilled roofer phsically remove some snow.At most you might do it once a season.
Does the slate roof extend all the way to the eaves?Is there evidence that gutters were ever wooden and built into the fascias,then lined with copper?
This is the strongest attachment of guttering,done like it was typically done in 1890.If you're using hung copper guttering I like the 5" ogee style with clips that screw into the fascias.They must be hung so that they set below the plane of the roof surface,so that snow and ice can slide over the top without tearing them off.Because some snow and ice will already be in the gutters ,this isn't entirely foolproof.
The slates should act as their own drip edge so you probably can forgo with copper drip.
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Jon Kranes
Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Walter,

Thanks for responding. To answer your questions: first, the snow slides are not over any doors, parking, etc, so the only real issue is protectinig the gutters. The quote I got for installing snow guards was pretty high, supposedly due to the number of snow guards needed on such a steep roof, and the need to remove slates to install them properly, so I'd rather avoid this cost if possible. The slate does extend to the eaves with 1" overhang or so. I see no evidence of built-in gutters but maybe I don't know what to look for. The existing fascia is 1/4" plywood under aluminum --clearly not original -- and I plan to replace the fascia as part of the gutter job so the gutters can be attached to something more substantial.
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admin
Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's an article in the Traditional Roofing newsletter on installing gutters and it can be found online at http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR1-coppergutters.html
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Walter Musson
Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jon,
Some evidence of built in gutters might be where the rake trim ends and the aluminum metal starts.If that were crown moulding thats been cut back to meet a flat fascia profile,then that might be a hint.Obviously, as you point out, 1/4" plywood and aluminum trim would have been added later.Sounds like snow guards aren't needed for passers by so that expense can be negated.When you have the fascias rebuilt make sure a good solid finish board is used for a base for the new guttering.Also if using ogee gutters with hangers,place them where the rafter tails are for added security.Benjamin Obdyke is a manufacturer of note,probably with a web site for you to peruse.
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Jon Kranes
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can someone weigh in on the galvanic corrosion issue with aluminum gutters? The argument I've heard from some sources is that water running over copper valleys on a slate roof will corrode the aluminum, but I've also been told the effect is negligible. I understand the textbook theory -- does it match what you guys see out in the field? Also do you see evidence to back up the claim that half-round gutters are less susceptible than Ogee style to damage from sliding snow?
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aluminum gutters of ogee profile have an inside coating protecting the alum. so corrosion isn't a big issue in my experience.If either style is properly installed the sliding snow damage is not a large concern I don't find.Half round gutters leave a space against the trim boards that lets water and ice sneak behind them,ogee ones create a better bond especially by using a fascia apron.This does matter in the Northeast.
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aluminum gutters of ogee profile have an inside coating protecting the alum. so corrosion isn't a big issue in my experience.If either style is properly installed the sliding snow damage is not a large concern I don't find.Half round gutters leave a space against the trim boards that lets water and ice sneak behind them,ogee ones create a better bond especially by using a fascia apron.This does matter in the Northeast.
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a huge ice dam problem and have consulted electricians to place trace wiring in the gutter and along the roof edge to keep the ice from forming but they don't know how to secure the wiring to the slate tiles. Are there special clips that will do the job?
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the problem with heat tape (trace wire) is they don't work. they are a temporary solution to a permenant problem. you need to do some ventalation work and roof work to reduce the ice build up (from my experiance) you'll never totally eliminate the ice build up. but you can reduce it and stop it from backing up with some proper vent and roof work. as far as clips they will keep pulling away from roof and if you nail them down through the slate, well you've got another problem holes in you're slate thus allow an area for water/ice to penatrate. so you see wrong stuff, wrong place, wrong climate.
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Deb Belcore
Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are annually replacing gutters on our slate roof - there is not enough length to the fascia board to move them low enough to get out of the snow plane. Guess I will try the roof rake, but we have a 2 story house, so it is pretty high. Any other ideas? I don't think the problem is ice damning so much as just the force of the sliding snow.
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Anonymous
Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes built (on roof) gutters. People call them yankee gutters, box gutters and etc... We have installed them on alot of homes with 100% success rate. That's what every slate roof truley needs if you don't want to replace gutters every 2-4 years.
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Barry Smith
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another option is to install traditional half round gutters. The brackets that hold them attach to the fascia and then with extensions, the gutter can be low enough that the sliding snow will clear them. See http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR1-coppergutters.html The trouble with built in gutters is that, when they leak, the roof structure gets wet and eventually rots. When hanging gutters leak, it's just irritating.

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