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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

@Ray:

might be better to:

a. put your goods in the "for sale" section of the forum instead of in the general "slate roof questions" topic.

b. Start your own thread with your own title, instead of putting it into an existing one about something else. (I.e. this thread is about IDing a specific type of slate on my roof in western mass)

c. Probably a good idea to list the height, width, thickness, and the kind of slate you are selling, in addition to it's condition. Picts of the slate would probably help the experts and potential buyers in here the most.


Cheers
Jill
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Ray Brunsman
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Username: Brunsman

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slate for sale in Findlay,Ohio. 2 story farm house built in 1880 recieving new roof. Broken pieces are free. 419 283-8597
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks to all for their ID inputs. I know it's nearly impossible to just look at a picture of slate with blurry details (compressed and viewed over the internet, no less) to ID it. Im sure it would be much easier task if you had some of the slate in your hand.

Anyway, my follow up question to the slate ID is:

Now that it's weathered from green to sliver/light gray after almost 140 years, what do I use for replacement slates so that the roof looks uniform?

If I were to use new Vt semi weathering green replacements up there, they would stand out like a sore (green) thumb. ;o)

Obviously finding some used slate of the same age, variety, and quarry would look the best -- but if that is not possible what do you all recommend?

should I use any new slate that is close in color to the faded slates?

What is the normal process for picking replacement slate on older homes?

thanks for all the help!

Jill



BTW, this forum + joe's book = incredible slate roof resource for us homeowners. The two certainly gave me the knowledge/confidence to fire a lame chimney contractor in under a day, and soon I'll be dealing with ridge and valley metal replacement of my roof. Spending time reading though many of your previous posts and answers over the years is *very* illuminating.

Again, thanks much to all the professionals and knowledgable homeowners who contribute.
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Stephen J Taran
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Username: Steve_t

Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry about the spelling
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Stephen J Taran
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Username: Steve_t

Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes this is semi weathering grayor green from vermont. Jill We did a large job the end of last year with TCS around 45 square of it. it was around $120 dollaers for a 3 foot by 8 foot sheet. You can call Mike Luduc at cambridge street metals 1 866 276 3825 this is where we bought it from
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

@walter:
yeah all 4 slates pulled for the roof brackets have a greenish tint in the non-exposed areas and have that grey to silver on the exposed faces.

The slate contractor who came out to look at it before closing thought it was vt unfading grey, but he didnt actually venture near the roof so he never saw it from less than 40 feet.
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ron kugel
Member
Username: Slateworks

Post Number: 28
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Walter- Looks like vermont sea green from Jill's last photo ?? Ron
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Walter Musson
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Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jill,
No that slate does not look like Brownville.
Are they all the same as that sample?
From your earlier picture I couldn't detect any green.
Walter
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

here's a much better closeup of an individual slate that was pulled for roof jacks this AM. Maybe it will help confirm the brownville ME, ID.

Also a correction to my intital post. We thought the house was built around 1890 as that was what the realtor told us, but we confirmed yesterday that it was actually built in 1875

I notice a very greenish tint to it in the right side section that was under the course above it. (hopefully the color shows up on your computer's monitor settings) Is that typical of the brownville slates? I saw picts from Joe's book with some nearby monson slate that definitely has a very green cast to it in chapt 9. Does the Brownville also typically have a green cast?

one full slate picture
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the replies Ron, Thomas AF.

The topside of the iron on the peeks is painted with what looks like a silver paint, but the underside is not. Actually the paint almost resembles the silver painted on my old steam radiators inside the house if that is possible. You can see in the photos that some got slopped onto the slate in a few spots.

I may try to squeek a couple more years out of the peek irons by painting the undersides of them and see if that helps. The valleys have to be replaced immediately as they have holes and have been filled with mastic/tar in several different layers on top of one another over the years. Im surpised they don't leak more than they do.

Say we decide to go with the Terne coated stainless, would it be ok to "phase in" the materials over 3-5 years? Maybe do the valleys and chimney flashing with TCS this year, while leaving the rusty ridge irons there. Then replacing the ridges within the next couple of years?

Is that a viable solution? Or will the iron from peeks have some negative effect on the TSC in the valleys?

BTW, what is the rough cost per liner foot of TSC valleys, ridges, and flashings? I find copper from $8-$13 for 16oz for 24" wide goods, but i can't find any TSC sheet prices online to compare it to. Anyone have ballpark costs on TSC?

J

ps -- should I start a new thread with my questions? Ive moved into a different topic from just a slate ID at this point. Not sure what the forum moderators prefer...
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ron kugel
Member
Username: Slateworks

Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Jill, Since you have spent most of your money on other projects(ha,it's great buying a new old house),you should try painting the existing metal work with a decent metal type paint, this should slow down the rust stains,I do not know for sure but it seems the metal may not of had paint on it for a long period of time to get those types of stains, seems like alot of staining attributed to condensation(could be part of the problem?) from your pics the metal looks to be in decent condition ,try caulking the exposed nail heads & rust holes than a coat of paint , Then you can save some $'s for future restoration.. Diedrich 101?(spelling?) restoration cleaner may remove the rust stains,have used it on tile works very well,really have not used any on slate.
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Thomas Massie
Intermediate Member
Username: Thomas

Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TCS II (terne coated stainless without lead in the coating) seems like it is long lasting, easy to work, relatively benign, and is cheaper than copper at our nearest commercial roofing place. Follansbee (sp?) makes it. Joe mentions it in his book. I have been buying it in 3x10 sheets. Hand shears will cut it, and a standard aluminum roofing brake will bend it.

The coating lends it a slightly duller finish than standard stainless, and dulls down a little more after weathering. Also solderable, but be sure to lock the pieces together - do not rely on the solder for strength - solder sticks to it very easily, but I haven't had any luck getting strong solder bonds to TCS II.
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AF
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Username: Tonyeriepa

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the rust, the best fix would be to replace the ridge iron with 20oz copper or terne-coated stainless steel and then wait for the existing staining to very slowly wear away over time!! Also replace any offending rusted nails that may be along the top row of slate under the ridge cap with copper or stainless.
Yes, insulating the attic better would reduce condensation in winter. In spring and summer it's possible for daytime's humid air passing through a well-vented attic to condense at night (as it does on the lawn outside) on the underside of the cool metal, which would probably only be significant if there's a lot of cool metal as in my house. I've done a decent amount of attic floor insulation since moving in and I'm hoping that at least the winter condensation on the underside of my 12x20 ft tin roof over bare wood (no felt remains) has been significantly reduced.
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

@AF: thanks. What would be your stategy to resolve the rust bleed/condensation. Obviously swaping out the metal/nails in the peaks and valleys is the correct solution. Or getting all water vapor out of the attic. A power venter of some sort? We have steam heat so we are going to always have a certain amount of moisture inside the home all winter

@forum: Any thoughts as to what I could replace the peeks and valleys with to stop the rust bleeding/staining?

I know copper is the best choice for metal, but honestly it's probably a bit out of our range right now, having just purchased the home, and sunk almost all our $$ into new heatng system, electrical system, etc.

What would be the best 2nd or 3rd choices for roof metals after copper? Any ideas what might be a good longer range strategy to reserve the roof while saving up for a proper repair?

Also, there is currently a pretty comprehensive combo of metals up there. Lead couterflashing on one of the chimneys. Aluminum on the other. Iron on the peeks. Valleys are a mystery metal I havent quite figured out yet. (Algae grows in them on the northside). aluminum bibs, copper bibs. One of the chimney caps is rusting steel. Basically it's a mixed metal menagerie over our head up there. ;o)~

Any thoughts on what to do on a relatively limited budget?
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AF
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Username: Tonyeriepa

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, the rust below is a nuisance and I haven't been able to get rid of mine. I have a 200 sq ft nearly-flat original terne roof above my slate slopes. Condensation on the underside leads to migration of iron-stained water to the edge of the flat roof and consequent runoff across the slate slopes. Most staining gets deposited on the top three rows. Your ridge/hip iron, as well as nails, may be the culprit here if moisture is getting through a ridge/hip gap and condensing on the underside of the metal and then moving down over the slate
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

@walter:
thanks walter.

I would have not guessed that in a million years. Our house is located just 10 miles due south of benninton, vt, in massachusetts, and close to the granville ny/fair haven quarries.

I would have never thought they would bring it all the way from maine when local quarries are so close.

@ forum:
Any way to remove/clean/lighten what I assume is the rust stains running across the slates.

J

Thanks for the ID.
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Walter Musson
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Username: Walter_musson

Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 04:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It looks like Maine slate, quarried in Brownville Me.
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Jill
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Username: Jellybar

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hiya slaters and slate lovers --

First time poster. go easy on me. ;o)~

Wondering if anyone could help me ID the slate on my new old home in western mass.

pic 1

pic 2

pic 3

I assume the redish streaks are rust stains from water trails from nails staining the slate? Anything I can do about them at this point.

The house was built in 1890ish and Im also assumming that is the original slate up there.

Fantastic forum, Thanks for all who participate and share in here -- so much info, so few days off to consume it all. ;o)~

Jill

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