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Jimmyjim (Jimmyjim)
Advanced Member
Username: Jimmyjim

Post Number: 49
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 06:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When people find out that I'm putting a slate roof on my house they all wonder why I'm not using synthetic. You know, because it must be better than slate. Even get it from contractors that specialize in old house repair. I tell all of them to check out this site, hoping it might change their thinking.
In my mind, if you're using expensive copper flashing, nails, valleys and you're up there, why not do it right?

I do see the point about using it on a roof that can't handle the load if in fact the rubber ones are that much lighter.

Took the kids around the Princeton campus and they thought they were at Hogwarts. I just kept looking at the roofs.They are amazing.

How come I don't see slate being used in these green building shows???
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Old_school (Old_school)
Senior Member
Username: Old_school

Post Number: 539
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The sales lady here for the inspire product wants me to install them in the worst way. Haven't done any yet. They are expensive to buy!

They have been making them for about 5 years, the company has been around for a lot longer, but they make metal brakes and metal equipment for the most part.

Will they last for the 50 years they claim? Who knows? There have been a lot of the "new" products on the market that are gone within a few years and they leave a lot of heart ache behind them. Why do they all want to do their R & D out in the field on our backs? Is it ALL their fault? Not necessarily, a lot of it has to do with the idiots that are installing it. The same idiots are also screwing up shingle roofs, slate roofs, flat roofs and metal roofs.

Slate is still a better product!
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Chris (Chris)
Advanced Member
Username: Chris

Post Number: 50
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i think we should make tires out of slate and put them on our cars, kind of like the flintstones....yaba daba dooo!
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Aafron (Aafron)
New member
Username: Aafron

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 07:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been involved in natural roofing slate on the island of Ireland for over 30 years and as the former agent of Welsh//Slate have sold 100s of millions of top quality natural slate from Wales, Cumbria, Cornwall, Spain, China and North America. By many I would be considered the foremost authority on the supply of natural slate in Ireland and would be the biggest advocate for the use of quality natural slate, none of your low grade commercial rubbish here thank you. I read with interest the posted comments on synthetic, polymer, plastic and rubber slates and agree in general with most comments, as in natural slate the majority produced and offered are at best usable on certain/specific jobs in certain geographical areas, not every slate is suitable for my market. So it is with Synthetic, looky likey, products, many are of a poor quality, mainly in their composition and performance. A big problem is the over selling of these products, to many half truths and false promises. Like natural slate from all sources there are good and bad from all. Sadly the majority of natural slate sold and supplied are substandard and it is these which give rise to the many problems with Spanish, Chinese, North American weathering and even some Welsh slates.I have looked recently at the Synthetic products and find the slates produced by INSPIRE roofing products to be of the highest quality, produced in USA by a large reputable company offering a 50 year transferable guarantee, with over twenty years in production. I welcome any and all comments re Inpire / TAPCO Slate.
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Bob Wall
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Joe,
Have you seen the new rubber slates on the market? The guys at the local roofing supply sing loudly the praises of the new line of rubber or plastic slates. I lost a church roof replacement job to a local gunning idiot (Now we can lay a "slate roof" with an air gun - shingling idiot mentality)Do you know what the sad thing is? Just like the junk synthetic slates put out 10 to 15 years ago the exposures are starting to curl, cup and discolor. The truly sad thing is that our local history buffs built a new train station 2 years prior to the roof replacement and installed the same product. Three years later I use it as a sales tool, "why not to install the new vulcanized rubber slate." Have you seen how the product weathers? I have pictures. After, mentioning these two particular installations to the salesmen at the local (very large company)branch of one of our suppliers they sent someone down to inspect the jobs. They swore that the material in these installations were from a different manufacturer. Have you seen the per square price $350.00?
Along those same lines. I am surprised that you still work on the old asbestos roofs. Up until lately we have condemned them. We recently found someone willing to work on them. But are the health risks and the roofing materials worth it?
Incidentally, we share a shop with a environmental cleanup company- you should hear some of the health problems asbestos causes. it is scary. (I am not one of those guys that thinks it should be removed from every pipe, floor etc. either). Any comment?
Bob Wall
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Joe Jenkins
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Bob,

Frankly I wouldn't put a rubber "slate" on a dog house. I looked at them closely at the NRCA convention two weeks ago (February, 2001), and although they look like slate from a distance, they are not impressive close-up (they flap around like mud flaps, etc.). That, plus there is no substitution for a stone roof. Everybody wants an imitation life these days - I want the real thing. When I heard that people were paying as much for rubber tiles as stone ones, I thought of the old line, "There's a sucker born every day."

Regarding asbestos, we do about 1% of our workload repairing asbestos roofs. We do not remove them, just replace a shingle here and there or replace some flashing. It's not dangerous under those conditions. It's a hazard when you breathe it.
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B Price
Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe,
What about other faux-slate products? I've seen a cementitious type as well as plastic. The plastic ones looked very much like true slate.
I agree with you that I'd probably not put these on as a slate replacement, but I would surely consider them for a dog house or playhouse, shed, etc. In my case, I have a porch roof with asphalt shingles that I need to replace. I'm considering a faux-slate product because a) it's not as visible from the ground anyway, and b) weight might be an issue. Thoughts?

By the way, I enjoyed the book tremendously. I wish it was required reading for any roofing contractor who wants to touch slate. I've had plenty of experiences with "Neanderthals".
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Joe
Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Porch roofs tend to be low-slope and therefore not very appropriate for slate because people walk on them periodically. I would design a porch with more slope or use natural slate down to a 4:12 pitch, but keep people off the roof after installation and keep ice and snow avalanches off the porch roof as well (to protect the slate). Otherwise, any disposable roofing would work on a low-slope, low-profile porch.
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wallace s. Lippincott, jr.
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I live in a community of 140 homes that was built in 1949 with slate roofs (PA black). Many of the roofs need replacement or sign repair. I had my roof replaced with vermont black/gray. Several neighbors are now lobbying our community board to put on Authentic roof (plastic) slate and Slate line. I believe above message refers to Authentic roof (Crowe). Can you confirm it? Can you provide any other documentation about the problems with this material.
thanks - the slate bible was very helpful.
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

These discussions are timely as we have a low slope side porch roof(not sure of the technical terms for the shape but it consists of an isosceles (?sp) triangle in the middle with right angled triangles on each side)which looks like it needs to be replaced. We are getting more and more leaks which usually is not a big deal as the floor is ceramic tile but with such frequent rains as we have had recently it has become a problem. The roof was re-slated 20 years ago and has been repaired several times. It has been walked upon since it is possible to paint the bedroom windows above it without walking on it.

I had thought of "rubber" slate but see from messages here that you don't recommend it. Luckily our porch roof cannot be seen from the street but we would like as nice a roof aesthetically as possible. Would you please recommend good disposable roofing that looks most like slate as I have no experience of it. If you cannot post names perhaps you could send it to me at my email address below. I would much appreciate it as I have lost confidence in our the local roofing materials vendor who recommended rubber slate even after I had asked about long term issues (answer none). Thanks a lot for your time.
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Jim Bennette
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rubber slates, They make great mudfalps for my boxtruck.
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Ivan Samuels
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, guys. Three years ago, I put Authentic brand rubber slates on my two car garage roof to roughly match slate on the attached carriage house. Only slight fading; no lifting or curling. Put over ice & water shield. While cost approximates slate, labor saving and ease of handling makes it worth it.
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Walter Musson
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Three years is not a lifetime.Hopefully they won't cup ,curl,or lift.
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SlateGuy@neslate.com
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't get too excited about three years. Give us an update in seven years...
SlateGuy
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Fred True
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Folks, I wouldn't be too hasty when judging the current crop of synthetic slates. I'll be the first to agree that real slate is always best (and more esthetically pleasing); but I am in the midst of installing a faux-slate roof and I'll tell you why. First off, I'm not a full time roofer, I'm a physicist, but I've done my fair share of roofs (including replacing my main house roof with lovely vermont black slate last year). I've done a good bit of research on synthetic slate.

I have a guest cottage that was built in 1984. It's got a 20-square, low-pitch (3.5/12) roof, and sits about 50 yards from my main house. It always bothered me that its (asphalt) roof looked so out of place next to the slate of the main house - as some of the other architectural details were similar. I thought about putting slate on it, but aside from being about twice the cost of the structure itself, the roof would have to be entirely rebuilt to hold the weight (it's "twigware" - 20" on center 2x4s). That just isn't an option for me, I might as well bulldoze it.

Keep in mind that most of these new synthetic shingles aren't plain "rubber" as has been written in this thread - they are either thermoplastic olefin, EPDM, polypropylene, or other hybrid rubber/plastic compounds. I'll agree there is a lot of variation between brands, and some are complete crap (the "mud flaps") or marketing ploys. After a lot of thinking and testing (and speaking to some of my chemist friends) I chose TPO shingles. These are a chemical alloy of polyethylene, polypropylene and EPDM (rubber), and contain a strong UV stabilization agent. This has some nice properties:

- it's very strong - more rip-proof than the strongest fiberglass shingles, and more impact resistant than real slate.

- it's not only made with recycled materials, it is 100% chemically (closed-loop) recyclable. Which means that unlike pure EPDM, it can be truly recycled, with no pollutant discharge, into new products. No landfill. This was important to me.

- It's light - about 1/3 the weight of slate, which fits my cottage roof nicely.

- the look is "not bad". From 50 feet you literally can't tell the difference. Up close, yes, it looks different, but again not bad (and a far sight better than asphalt). Will it look this nice after 50 years? Time will tell, but all indications are, aside from some fading, it will. The brand I chose guarantees for 50 years against "non-uniform fading".

This is not a NEW material, folks. It has stood the test of time in other applications - in car bumpers, RV roofs, marine applications, etc. For example a similar TPO/EPDM recipe called "starloy" has been used to make dock surfaces for over 20 years (made by Carlisle) - and I've seen some of these at the Jersey shore. One of them I saw was 19 years old and still looked new, aside from some color bleaching - and that is with constant SALT WATER exposure.

It's also cost effective. My 20 square job cost 41% of what new vermont black slate would have cost (not including the deck rebuild that would have been necessary for slate). If the roof lasts 50 years, which is the warranty length, it will have been roughly as cost effective as a low end slate roof. I'm still using copper nails, copper flashing, and all the good stuff you would put into a slate roof.

Anyhow, I'm a big slate fan and will ALWAYS use it where it can be used (I'll be putting it on a timber-frame addition next year). But, if you've got a roof that can't hold slate and isn't cost effective to rigidize, synthetic slate IS better than asphalt roofing. Better looking, longer lasting, and 100% recyclable. Choose the vendor carefully, though. Mud flap, schmudd flap. :)
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have an asbestos shingle roof that was damaged in a storm. The insurance claim rep has seen it and the estimate is pending. I have replacement cost coverage on my policy. Based on your experience, what should I expect from the insurance company?
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alan
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am a construction worker on a job site that was using slate for siding on a building. I was given all the extra slate for my own building project. Can anyone tell me how to install slate as siding on a house? I am a complete novice so any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Joe Jenkins (Admin)
Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Install it the same way as a roof, but you only need a 2" headlap.
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Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, I have a question. A group which runs a community (non-profit) organization wants to save a beautiful slate roof on the building they own and operate out of. They have gotten a quote to replace the slate with asphalt (YUK) shingles, at a really cheap price. However they have a very wealthy donor who would like to see the slate stay. He/She has asked them to find out the energy rating on the slate roof before He/She goes over board on donating. WHY? I don't know. So does anyone have an idea or maybe information on someone or place who might have an idea on this. Please leave the post here.
It is vermont slate, very beautiful and tight roof with a mixture of greens, greys and a small amount of reds mixed in to form a very nice pattern. The size is 18 X 9's and as we all know from a 100+ year old slate roof the felt/underlayment is just about shot. The roof planking boards are tight together. The grounds/maintenance man said that they had the building insulated 2-3 years ago and confirmed with the director of the building the insulation company installed R-38 insulation. Installed on the floor of the attic. Any help would be greatly appriciated either by knowledge of this subject or information on who I might contact who may have the knowledge on this subject. A beautiful Vermont slate roof with about 150-200 years of life left is depending on us to help. I am thanking everyone in advance for any help they may be able to give. And also a thank you goes to Joe for providing us with such a good site/forum where we have atleast a chance to find information like this. THANK YOU!!! Oh yea the owners of the building and myself already know it's atleast a R-38 (because of the insulation) we need to know the energy rating of the roof boards and slate on this roof. Thanks
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Barry Smith
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, ideally the attic space is well ventilated so that the underside of the roof is as cold in the winter as the outside of the roof. All of the insulation should be in the floor as you describe. So the rating of the slate and the sheeting is a moot point.
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admin
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slate is not an insulating material. It is a weatherproofing material. It has no energy rating to speak of. A one inch wood roof deck has about an R factor of 1. Dead air spaces add additional R value. But Barry is correct - if the attic floor is insulated and the roof is not, then the insulating nature of the roof doesn't matter. Also, the felt underlayment was installed to keep the rain out of the building while the roof was installed. After the roof is installed, the underlayment serves no real purpose. So the fact that the underlayment is shot is meaningless. A slate roof installed without underlayment is just as watertight as one with underlayment.

The "energy" issue here involves the destruction of a good slate roof and replacement with a short-lived petro-chemical alternative. That is a major waste of energy.

Joe Jenkins
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks guys, I have been around slate roofing along time and never had this type of question arise. I did not fiqure much in the way of r-value. And I certainly know that a slate roof needs NO under layment I just mentioned that for the energy purposes (so it would not be included in). I guess your telling me what I told them but, I still wanted to know if someone knew alittle more about this than me (being thorough). Again thanks and hopefully the ones with the means to save this roof will understand. By the way I will print these responses if I am able to...
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Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

O.k., Katrina tore up a bit of my asbestos roof. My ins. co. has said they'll replace it with a like material - which is slate. This is a 100 yr. old shotgun, which probably had slate at some point. I've had synthetic slate recommended, and could have it installed in a week. It could take 3 months before real slate is installed, and I have other damage to fix. I don't want to wait. How good, or bad, is the synthetic? Does it look like plastic up there? Does it do o.k. with heat? Around me are a few slate roofs which were damaged worse than my asbestos, and some had damage from a hail storm; which stands up to weather - BAD weather - better? I'm starting to feel like a dizzy woman, any info to give me back a brain is appreciated.
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admin
Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't waste your time with fake slate. Go with the real thing and you'll be done with it for the rest of your life, and long after. It's worth the wait.

Durable Slate Company, 1050 N. Fourth Street, Columbus, OH 43201; Ph: 800-666-7445; Cell phone: 614-205-8756; Fax: 614-299-6885; www.durableslate.com

Joe Jenkins
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JERRY SAVIANO
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I`M BUILDING A NEW HOUSE NEED ADVICE ON ROOF ,LOOKING AT ECOSTAR SLATE RECYCLED RUBBER & PLASTIC WOULD ADVISE IT?
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Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

NOPE, seen too many of these roofs go bad real early in their life. I know some people will respond and say bet ya $50,000.00 it's better than slate b_llsh_t. Either go with natual slate, say an S1 Vermont or go with a metal/copper roof. Don't be FOOLED into wasting your $ on a wannabe slate product by some fancy smancy lab terms. Go with what is and has been proven for centuries real SLATE. I wouldn't want a fake automobile. would you? And why does anyone want to bet $50,000.00 to prove their product is good? Oh yea so they have enough (hopefully) to pay off some lab guy to prove his theory. Which anything can be proven better or worse. Ever watch a court case where both sides have an "expert" witness to prove their theories. So if you can prove it just prove it! But before you try to feed us alot of mumbo jumbo show me a 100 plus year roof with this plastic slate NOT some lab experiment. Anyways to answer your question NO don't buy into their sales/marketing pitch. Go with the real deal, natural slate.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know, pilots doubted jet aircraft when they first came on the scene. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of different faux products, some good, some bad, but to label them all bad would be incorrect.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

THEY ARE ALL BAD! ---- CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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tiimmyd
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

why do people come on this forum and label themselves as anonymous if you want to make a point and are confident about it state your name,rank and number, allright, name will do, but its not me that needs convincing,they're are other roofing forums where people contribute and have nothing to hide.On this forum we are slate appreciating folk and advocates of traditional roofing,in essence ,if some body out there knows of a better roofing material than slate,and can PROVE it, PLEASE,prove it and we can all move on,otherwise remain anonymous and well in this case, i guess keep crashing your planes and burning!! Test pilots are expendable just the same as consumers are,in your view anyway,it would seem.

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