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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you very much. You answered all my questions.
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 207
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When replacing a valley on a tile roof, you just remove the tiles that cover the valley. This is also illustrated in the Slate Roof Bible, 2nd edition, Chapter 21. The small tile pieces are hung on copper wires. We put a dab of GE Silicon II clear caulk on the side of the small wired pieces to adhere them to the tile beside them for extra security. A 3/4" cant seems large, but the point is that you can make the cant whatever size you want on a metal drip edge. On a slate roof, it's roughly twice the thickness of the slate. Tiles are thicker, so a thicker cant would make sense.

Valleys need replaced when the metal has worn through and is leaking. Caulked repairs don't work very well. Broken tiles must be replaced, not just caulked. My guess is that the hidden strap hangers would do just fine in windy conditions. We have never had one blow off. The overlying tiles are nailed to the roof so the underlying tile, hung on an invisible strap hanger, is held securely in place. It would take a hell of a damaging wind to blow one off.
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Mr. Jenkins. I have another question. On the valley repair on the Presbyterian Church in Slippery Rock, were all the valley tiles pulled up or just a few courses to get to the valleys?
Our valleys are on a 7:12 slope and we were just going to have the first courses pulled up and then put back down, rather than pull out the ridge and work down to the broken tiles.
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. I think I found a description of our tile (flat, interlocking, 8" x 13-3/4") in Educational Article #6 on thetileman's website. The article said that the wood cants originally used were 3/4" x 1". Would the copper drip edge with cant that you show be the correct replacement size? Also, I went to the website you mentioned on repairing tile roofs. How do you tell if a valley needs to be replaced? Tiles were broken on both the north and south sides of our west extension during Hurricane Rita. The broken pieces were caulked back together. There are water stains underneath all the areas where the tiles were caulked, but the rest of the decking underneath the valleys is in perfect condition. Also, are the hidden copper hangers from your online store adequate for hurricane conditions? My roofer said he would use storm clips and I like that idea. Also, I am still not clear on how small valley pieces are adhered to the roof. I assume they are adhered with no metal different from the metal in the valleys, which I think is copper.
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Joe Jenkins
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Username: Joe

Post Number: 205
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's a little info on repairing tile roofs: http://www.slateroofcentral.com/TileRepair.htm
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Joe Jenkins
Senior Member
Username: Joe

Post Number: 204
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rose - We sell the copper drip edge shown below, which may work in your situation. It's possible that you may be able to pull out the wooden cant and slide in the copper drip edge. I'm not sure how you would fasten it, since this is not something that is commonly done - perhaps screwing through the face with gasketed brass screws would work. You can see them here: http://www.slateroofcentral.com/store_drip_edge.html#cant


copper drip edge with cant
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Got it. Thanks. I'm going to email my roofer now.
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slateworks roofing
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Username: Slate

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 07:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you look on this site under online store they show an image of a drip edge with a cant-your roofer should know what a drip edge is and could fiqure out the best way to fabricate one for your roof...you can use stainless or aluminum trim nails for your fascia work -- hot dipped galvanized or copper nails to reinstall your tile -- if you remove tile from first row you can repair the decking ,and also install new felt paper or Ice & Watershield membrane ect..
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, it's me again. Maybe I don't understand the instructions. What's a drip edge?
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you. Your instructions are very clear. I am going to show them to my contractor to see what he thinks. I think I found a description on the internet of how the tiles were originally put on. The wood cant was wrapped in felt and attached to the deck and the tiles had an overhang of around 2". I guess the felt deteriorated over the years. Anyway, now I'm wondering if the rotted wood that I am seeing is decking as well as the cant strip. I guess we would find out when the tiles are pulled up from the first course. It sounds as though you have made this type of repair before. Have you had to repair decking as well? Also, are stainless steel nails better than galvanized?
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slateworks roofing
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Username: Slate

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 09:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Rose, You can remove tile from the first row,from the top -bottom ect..and reinstall them.you do not have to remove all of your tile to work on the first row of tile...metal could be made to cover your fascia boards(the board that faces out directly below the tile) then you could make a drip edge(cant support) to slide under the tile and over top of the fascia metal,fasten with stainless steel trim nails if you use aluminum for your fascia & drip edge,,just install nails thru the front of fascia and drip edge,sometimes we pre-drill the holes to help eliminate denting.,Also the drip edge can be installed under the tile by removing every 3rd or 4th tile ect..install the metal in lengths 6' to 10'long whatever size works best,then fasten the metal to roof deck where each tile was removed,then reinstall tile,then you shift the 2 tiles above to expose a nail hole,fasten with nail,do not set nail tight ,shift tiles back in place..If you do remove tile you could also have a wood cant installed then install your drip edge over it..good luck.
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you so much. I was just outside looking at the wood strips and thinking I wished metal could be put over them and then I came in and found your post about using metal. I have a bunch of questions. Would the metal drip edge that you mentioned work without gutters? We have no gutters except for the open valleys on either side of the 4' x 16' extension on the west side. Also, can interlocking flat tiles be removed from the bottom? The wood strip has actually deteriorated so much in some places that I think metal could be pushed in under the tiles, but how would it be attached? Also, the wood has actually completely rotted away in some places. Can new pieces of metal-covered wood be placed in those areas without hurting the tiles? How would they be attached?
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slateworks roofing
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Username: Slate

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, The wood was used for a cant in place of the undereaver cant starter tile -- you could fix this by fabricating and installing a metal drip edge that would be made to fit over the wood cant and into your gutter(roof apron-drip edge combo) would install this without removing the tile or by removing a few tile and either fasten thru the face of the metal -- or where you remove a few of the tile --also this metal will act as a cant so you may need a couple of face nails or rivets to help support it against the bottom of the tile...wood repair of fascia can be done with epoxy ect..the new metal will protect it from further damage.
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Rose A. Matthis
New member
Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. As you say, installing the copper-covered strip, then the small tile, then the first course would have been the correct way to do it. But they installed only the wood, with no copper cover, originally. I just don't know what to do now to correct it without taking all the tiles off. I think foam would expand and cause problems.
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Slate Affair Inc.
Senior Member
Username: Slate_man

Post Number: 154
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 04:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't do alot of tile but, I would have installed small pc of tile to give it is kick or cant. Instead of foam. When we start tile roof there is a build in cant strip PT, then it covered with copper, then a start pcs of tile which is smaller. Then the first course.
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Rose A. Matthis
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Username: Beaumont_tx

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Our roof is 75-100 years old and is made of matte green interlocking flat tiles stamped with a cross and circle symbol on the back and ridgepieces stamped with Ludowici Celadon Imperial Chicago and the same cross/circle symbol on back. It is a hip roof on a 31" x 50" two-story American foursquare with a 4' x 16" extension on the west side. The extension has two open valleys on either side. The roof slope is 7:12. The bottom layer of tiles on all sides was put on over wood with no under-eave tiles and no flashintg. Our contractor thinks this was done in error, but I wonder if the wood was used for canting in place of the under-eave tile. With the craftsmanship seen in the attic and on the roof, I am surprised that such a mistake was made. Anyway, the wood is rotting and there is consequent damage to some of the wood in the fascia and eaves. We love our roof and think it is the best thing about our house, but we can't afford to have the whole roof taken off, flashing put up, and the whole roof put back on. Our contractor suggested putting foam under the bottom layer of tiles, then carefully shaving and cutting it to shape it, then priming and painting it. Also, the fascia and eave wood would be reprimed and repainted. I have some concerns. As the foam expands, wouldn't the lower tiles lose their proper angle? What about using epoxie instead of foam? I saw an episode of This Old House in which a rotted window sill was scraped out, filled with some type of epoxie which was then shaved, primed, and painted. Any help anyone could offer would be much appreciated.

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