Post Number: 2
|Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:04 pm: ||
Thanks for the input everybody. I'm still undecided whether to do the mitered overhang or the slated hip style with aluminum. I'm leaning toward the mitered option. I like the look of that style a lot. I might score some used black slate and thinking of using that on the cupola and actually on the fascia too. If I do that I'll have to overhang the roof edge a bit more to account for the extra 3/4 inch or whatever it's going to be. Anyway, If I get that slate, maybe I'll do the hips in it... but will the black slate look cool or funny on the ridges with the mixed grey, black and grey green field slates???? Decisions, decisions. I do tend to over think this stuff, but I sort of have to in order to make projects turn out well when doing stuff I've never done before... which I do quite a bit of. Seems to work for me. BTW, I can't take credit for the framing. A friend that was staying with us pretty much blasted that out while we were busy with other facets of the project. Its super tight and stout. The roof frame lumber was milled to a full 8 x 1 3/4. I'm off to build the cupola. Thanks again. I'm sure I'll have more questions and still interested in any more input on the hips. I think I've read everything in the forum, in the book and on the site about hips.
Post Number: 54
|Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 05:42 pm: ||
If you want a mitered hip rather than a saddle hip, I think you'll be fine. Just keep it as tight as you can and overlap away from the weather-side. As far as small pieces at the hips, you may have to adjust as you approach, whether the side laps or by trimming 2 or 3 slates down slightly, you should be able to avoid any problems with that. If all four sides are the same, after the first one, you'll have it down. Have fun.
Post Number: 130
|Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:47 am: ||
It is great to see your project (nice framing - very neat work) and your self sustaining lifestyle. Cheers to you and yours. keep asking questions here and these guys will surelly give you some valuable advice in finishing this roof properly. It is good to see that your musical tastes are also in order.
The pieces that are at the drip edge are "doubled" in a way, for a few reasons,, apparance and to shed water. here is a link to a slated ridge sequence that may give an answer. http://www.slateroofcentral.com/install_hips_ridges.htm#joint
And here is a good starter course sequence that Mr Jenkins also did..
Post Number: 225
|Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 08:44 pm: ||
Hey, maybe you are overthinking this whole thing! Relax a bit and think about this for a minute.
First of all, neat looking building and from the details I can see from the picture, a nice job framing the roof. I hope that the wood is not so seasoned that it is too hard to nail the nails into for the slate. Very dry = very hard and that will bend the nails. When you come to the hips, install a 1 x 2 on each side of the hip and cut your slates to that board or nailer. You can bevel cut it so that the joint is tight or just install it so that it butts is slightly apart. Take a piece of aluminum (it doesn't have to be that heavy, maybe .027) and bend it in the middle at the angle of the roof. so that it lays right over the slates of the roof. Just install your ridges over that metal and butt the slates together at the hip. The slates will cover the aluminum and the aluminum will stop the water from getting between the slates. You could do it with long pieces of aluminum or with short pieces beneath each set of ridge slates. Both will work well on that pitch. The aluminum will not rust like copper and is much cheaper.
Looks like a nice place you are building. When the shat hits the fan as it must one of these days it will be a good place to stay away from it all. Peace!
Post Number: 1
|Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 07:43 pm: ||
Greetings. I'm so glad you all are here! I'm new to slate roofing, about to embark on a 680 or so sq ft. roof using chinese slate of unknown quality that was purchased as overage for $400.00. I have about 1000 sq feet of coverage with a 4 inch headlap. The building is a full hip design with somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 feet of ridge. There will also be a full hip cupola on top which serves as a vent both for the ceiling space and the building which will have little doors that open and close the vent from inside. The deck is rough sawn fir that we milled with a portable mill (ditto with the lumber for the rest of the structure), 1" thick applied last fall, so it's seasoned. I think I will have a few more questions as I proceed with final planning and installation, but for now I'm trying to solve one particular problem. From the start I had pretty much decided that I was going to slate the hips with a copper flashing... until I saw the price of copper. We are poor self employed homesteaders almost everything is based on sweat equity around here and with having to buy new tools and stuff to do the slate, this roof is quickly rising well above budget and that money could be spent on some other essential like fencing or water system stuff. Since I've been really interested in the german overhanging type hips and ridges pictured on pages 187 and 282 since I first saw them, I thought I'd explore the option of using that style without flashing for the hips. I live in Northern California which in a pretty much mediterranean climate. We have almost no rain for almost 6 moths of the year and driving torrential rains during the winter which can often go fairly horizontal.
* It says in the slate roof bible that mitered hips with no flashings were common procedure, at least in earlier buildings. If that works, then it would seem that having one side of the roof hang over would significantly improve the small amount of leakage that there must be when drops hit directly on the ridge groove. Does anyone have direct experience with this style of hip or information that would support or disprove that idea?
* In the pictures in the book it looks as though the edge slates at the hip are sometimes doubled up (page 282) in one picture it's the overhang slates in another it's the underhanging slates while in yet another it's the overhang, but you can't actually see the underhang slates. Others appear to have niether doubled up. Is this doubling up cosmetic or does it decrease chances of leakage? If it's functional are the slates that the corners doing triple coverage and how can that be done without screwing up the gap in the previous course of larger slates?, (which it doesn't appear to do in the pictures.) So far my plan is to cut the bottoms of all slates to a very slight even convex radius and otherwise they are rectangular at around 16x12 inches, so that's what I'm working with.
* I'm also wondering, if you guys don't talk me out of this, how to approach the beveling. It occurred to me to lay the under hanging side first, then snap a line and run my 4 inch grinder with a diamond cut off up the hip to make the miter and then hand trim the overhanging slates with a slate cutter (have a stortz 95-A on the way and hoping that's adequate for this whole job). Any thoughts.
* Should the underhanging slates be very slightly proud to make a tighter joint, or should I just try for a tight joint with the overhang slates laying perfectly flat on the roof deck?
* What about a single bead of high quality silicone sealant at the seam... good? bad? wait till it leaks then do it?
* I have to say that I'm also concerned that in working with set width slates I'll end up with small spaces where the slate width didn't quite work out at the hip, especially at the overhang, and not sure about what one could do about that when it happens. Know what I mean?
* Any other caveats, option or ideas?
The building uses quite a few new and somewhat experimental natural building techniques. The floor is poured adobe, the walls are slip straw (straw coated in a light clay slip and packed into the wall cavities) and most of the plasters will be a mixture of our local clay, sand and straw. I'm actually pretty excited by the prospect of experimenting with what seems like a potentially more effective way to do a hip without flashing and save a 100 pounds of copper which must require a hell of a lot of copper orr and energy to mine, process, roll and transport to me here (not to mention 500.00 or so!). Then again, I don't want to be trying to redo this in a couple of years. Although I'm new to slate, I tend to do my homework and I'm generally a fast learner and careful workman, so if it's possible and doesn't require too much skill that has to be hard learned, I can probably pull it off. I'd better, because those rains usually start in October sometime.....