| Author | Message | ||
     Joy Jackson New member Username: Stonewall Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2007 |
House build 1895 with slate roof and built in gutters. Time for new roof/slates are missing and slipping. Can't afford new slate roof. Question: Should we have roofer build out over the gutters with a new roof or have them relined? | ||
| J Wilson |
I am a homeowner getting ready to tear into an old box gutter. The gutter is at the back of a three-story townhouse. The roof is a shed style roof (about 55' long) down to the gutter. Since the gutter is the lowest point, my plans are to repair it first, then re-roof the shed portion of the roof. The slope of the roof is 1-12 to the gutter. My plans are to tear all of the roofing cement etc out of the old box, repair/replace the wood and then line with copper. Is there any recommendation for the weight of the copper for the gutter vs. flashing. SRB book says 16 or 20 oz. Should I use 20 oz for the gutter and 16 for chimney flashing? What about 18 oz?? Does it matter? Also, I was planning on running the copper gutter possibly as much at 2' up the shed roof since the pitch is so low. At some point, though I have to overlap the copper with asphalt rolled roofing for the rest of the shed (rolled roofing would obviously not be my preference, but this part of the roof cannot be seen and budget looms large). Can I bond the overlaped rolled roofing to the copper with roofing cement. I'm at a loss here? How do I marry these two on such a low pitch?? Is roofing cement corrosive or damaging to copper?? My plans are to cleat the copper sheeting that forms the gutter to the planked roof deck, but overlapping with the rolled roofing has me stumped. Also I have a slated mansard front. I will re-slate or, does anyone have an opinion on the crushed slate (it's much less weight and pre-drilled) molded slate shingles?? I think Owens-Corning manufactures the latter. | ||
| Walter Musson |
J Wilson Yes 20 oz. for the gutter is more long lasting,but a little bit stiffer when forming.Hopefully you'll have the use of a good metal break.All overlapping seams in the copper should be rivetted and soldered with 50/50 bar solder.Yes you can bond the rolled goods to the copper,just overlap by 3 to 4 inches.Probably most of the Mansard slate is reusable so just buy some salvage to make up the balance needed. | ||
| J Wilson |
Walter, thanks for the input. | ||
| Joe Jenkins (Admin) |
The best material for lining a box gutter is terne coated stainless steel (26 gauge or 28 gauge)available from Follansbee in West Virginia. It will outlast copper. | ||
| Aaron Ruby |
I came to this place for one quesiton (the word "controversy" peaked my interest) but have some more since this last posting. First, to address flashing materials: 1.) Does anyone have any experience using zinc-coated copper (such as fabricated from Revere) as flashing material for box gutters, downspouts, ridge rolls, chimney step flashing, crickets. etc...? How does it compare to terne coated stainless as far as workability and longevity? We are attracted to it for use with a slate roof because of copper's reputation, but also because the color would be more appropriate on this particular building. 2.) I read in one of Jenkins' publications, "Thinking about replacing a slate roof?" that rough sawn lumber is the best decking under slate. That makes sense..what alarmed me is this:"it can, in fact, be used green and full of sap (it will dry in place with no detriment to the roof or to the structure)". GREEN LUMBER?!? Recently, an owner had many questions for me about slate roofs and in our conversation he said: "I don't know much about slate roofs, but I do know not to install it over green lumber." He said this because he said there is a famous church in England with its spire all twisted and deformed...legend says it was because the slate was installed over green lumber decking and it shrank and twisted all over the place, causing the spire to become deformed. So what gives??? | ||
| admin |
First off, the zinc coated copper is a safer alternative to lead coated. Copper is always easier to work than stainless, but stainless will outlast copper. Secondly, I have installed slate over green lumber many times, always with great success. It's possible that it may not work on a particular spire depending on how well the lumber can be nailed. Some tower roofs require small pieces of wood in order to cover curved areas. In any case, the lumber must be nailed tightly to the roof frame in order for it to dry properly without moving. The twisted spire legend sounds bogus to me. In order for a spire to deform, the framing members must deform. The roof decking would not affect the framing members. Joe Jenkins | ||
| G. Oxley |
What type of skylight would be compatible for installig in a galvanized (zinc) hip roof. | ||
| Anonymous |
Your advice is sought for a roof sealant for the Caribbean climate, for rooftop fixtures - i.e galvanized metal and aluminum flashings,brick, block and mortar. | ||
| admin |
Standard trowel grade roof cement would act as a suitable sealant. Otherwise, if you want to use a caulk, use GE Silicon II. | ||
| diannegigler |
I have serious water damage in my second floor rooms in areas near where box gutters are located. I previously patched a small hole in the one gutter I could easily access. This held for several years, but now water is coming in again. I have been looking for instructions and/or advice on how to repair or replace the lining in the gutters, but have not been successful. I am going to have to rent scaffolding and/or a cherry picker, so I want to have all necessary instructions, equipment, and materials ready. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you. | ||
| Walter Musson |
Relining those types of gutters is a fairly large undertaking,dealing with metal and solder and I'm assuming slate on your roof. I've used EPDM flashing membrane glued into these type gutters to extend the life of them if replacement is not financially viable. More info is needed to help you out more fully.Are they copper?Have they been tarred up heavily?Do you have slate and metal working tools?If soldering up new liners do you have access to a heat source to heat up soldering irons? | ||
| admin |
You have basically two choices: 1) continue to repair and patch, or 2) replace the gutter linings. Repair and patching can be done in numerous ways, including trowel-grade roof cement and fiberglass membrane over the holes and cracks, or liquid asphalt emulsion and fiberglass over the entire gutter lining, or rubber (EPDM). The only sure way to stop the problem is to replace the lining with new, soldered metal - either copper or stainless steel. That's a job that should be left to professionals. If you want to do it yourself, you will need sheet metal equipment, or access to a sheet metal shop where they can bend up your metal. You will also need soldering equipment (sold on this web site at http://www.jenkinsslate.com/store_solder.html). We will soon have a page on this site showing some box gutter relining work. Joe Jenkins | ||
| diannegigler |
I appreciate the responses so far. Sorry for not providing sufficient information. The roof is tile; I don't know if that will make things easier or more difficult. The current lining is copper. So far, the only patching is what I did on one gutter with screen and some type of patching adhesive suggested by a Busy Beaver employer. Money is definitely an issue, so I want to do whatever I can myself. I have basic tools and am willing to purchase what I need. I have a soldering gun and took a welding course a few years ago. (I don't know that those skills will be needed, but I think it gives some indication of my willingness to try things.) Based on the responses so far, I guess I should try repairing and patching rather than replacing. Please provide details and/or recommendations on how to do this. Thank you. | ||
| admin |
There is a possibility that you may be able to solder onto the old copper with a sheet metal copper patch. This is not easy, but if you grind the old copper down to a clean surface with a high-speed brass wire wheel on a grinder, you may be able to rivet and solder a patch over a hole or split seam, or even just re-solder a broken seam. You will need solder, rivets, flux, etc. If it's too far gone for that, you can temporarily patch it with other materials as mentioned above in an earlier post. Joe Jenkins | ||
| diannegigler |
The local Home Depot will order EPDM flashing membrane for my use. It comes in two variations - one with adhesive pre-applied and one without. The one with pre-applied adhesive requires the use of a primer. Any recommendations? Thanks. Also I sent email to the company over a week ago and have not heard anything from them. | ||
| Walter Musson |
The one with pre-applied adhesive will be easier to use and won't require a lap sealant for the edges. | ||
| David Butler |
I have a slate roof with built-in copper box gutters. Both are being replaced. Should the roof be replaced first, and then the gutters, or does it matter? My concern would be damage to the gutters if they are installed prior to the installation of the slate roof. | ||
| Anonymous |
Remove all of the old roofing and Box gutters first -then install the new copper liner for your gutter ,then the Slate..If you would do the slate first you would have to leave the first 2 rows of Slate off,then install the gutter liner and the first 2 rows of slate with Bibs or slate hooks-Experinced roofers will have no problem protecting the new gutter from any type of damage. |
